I pose the following question. When is formal Asbestos Awareness Training (given by an outside trainer) not required? I was recently involved in and incident where a worker broke a board without realising it may have been asbestos. This discovery was not expected. The Facts: The project is a relatively large refurbishment covered by CDM with a Principal Contractor in place. There had been a full Asbestos Refurbishment survey carried out and all identified ACMs removed by a licensed contractor, the abatement report confirms this but has the usual proviso 'but we cannot be 100% sure that all asbestos has been removed'. Those workers carrying out soft strip and any demolition has attended formal full asbestos awareness training courses - the management (both contractor & PC) have also attended. Other workers on the project – who were not going to disturb the fabric of the building during their normal everyday work – were given a short (10 minute) talk on: 1. What asbestos was and the dangers of asbestos that asbestos had been identified within the building and that all the identified asbestos had been removed but; 2. it was possible that there may be more ‘somewhere’; 3. What to do if you came across suspect materials – stop work, inform your supervisor, follow any further instruction given; 4. Do not disturb material that you are not certain is not asbestos. Note: the person who broke the board had recently attended a formal asbestos awareness course but had failed to recognise that the material contained asbestos. As a result of the incident the knee jerk reaction is that EVERYONE that works on the site must now attend a formal half-day asbestos awareness course (with contractors bearing the cost). This is supposedly in line with the requirements of the Control of Asbestos Regulations, the ACOP of which states “Asbestos awareness training is required to be given to employees whose work could foreseeably expose them to asbestos. In particular, it should be given to all demolition workers and those workers in the refurbishment, maintenance and allied trades where it is foreseeable that their work will disturb the fabric of the building”. I queried this approach and asked the following questions; Does EVERYONE include dry-liners - apparently yes; painters and decorators – yes; wall-paper hangers – yes; architects, client and visitors – strangely no. The ACOP further states that asbestos awareness training “is for those persons who are liable to disturb asbestos while carrying out their normal everyday work”. I would suggest --- dare I say it --- that a risk assessment is on the agenda. Will wallpaper hangers come across asbestos in their “normal everyday work”; would painters and decorators? carpet layers? even brickies? Is a formal half day asbestos awareness course required or will a ten minute section, covering asbestos, contained within a site specific Induction or briefing be deemed adequate. Should not the depth and detail of the training reflect the realistic risk associated with the proposed work? Can asbestos awareness training given to people who would not encounter asbestos in their “normal everyday work” be covered in a basic 10 minute toolbox talk? Opinions please.

I would also agree with Hussar. Collective measures rather than individual work better.

Hello All We must remember that asbestos is still one of the biggest killers With this in mind we have a duty to deliver Asbestos awarness training which as is listed in L143 as being required to be given to employees whose work could foreseeable expose them to asbestos. In particular, it should be given to all demolition workers and those workers in the refurbishment, maintenance and allied trades where it is foreseeable that their work will disturb the fabric of the building because ACMs may become exposed during their work. The topics covered should include The properties of asbestos and its effects on health, including the increased risk of lung cancer for asbestos workers who smoke The types, uses and likely occurrence of asbestos and ACMs in buildings and plant The general procedures to be followed to deal with an emergency, for example an uncontrolled release of asbestos dust into the workplace And how to avoid the risks from asbestos, for example for building work, no employee should carry out work which disturbs the fabric of a building unless the employer has confirmed that ACMs are not present. A 10 min tool box would not surfice in delivering this important information

Jarsmith, what you have listed is the training requirement for a higher level of involvement with asbestos. The requirements are summarised on an HSE webpage http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/training.htm

Just to correct you, what I have listed is directly from the regulations and a risk assessment can only define the exact information which should be given to employees.

The BIG problem - Demo/refurb surveys with various riders. The first question is always the competency of the report and the detailed location iformation+plan and the identification of precise areas not sampled. Without the latter the survey has as much use as a chocolate teapot. The broad disclaimer alone is NOT sufficient in my view. If they surveyed an area there should be little room for omission of identification. Back to the point - if the building under refurbishment is pre 200 construction then technically ALL persons at work could foreseeably encounter asbestos unless a survey has stated that the specific spot where they are working has been intrusively sampled and no ACMs can be detected. This is a big ask at times. As to the depth of knowledge then regulation 10 comes into play. Has anyone had the courage to invite getting a FFI from the HSE as I think several parties could be in line for investigation. I really do despair that little has really changed on site re asbestos over the last 20 years. We still get the "ACCIDENTAL" find!!! Bob