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fiesta  
#1 Posted : 03 June 2013 14:45:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fiesta

Hi, I've just started a new job and found that although my new company does have 18001 its through a company called QMS (not UKAS accredited). QMS seem to have quite an impressive web site but I'm not convinced. Does anyone have any actual experience of them ? Thanks for any comments Andy
jarsmith83  
#2 Posted : 03 June 2013 14:51:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

Cant comment on their credentials but had experience with them on my last company. We switched form them to LRQA and the difference was that LRQA audited very in depth.
Palmer20061  
#3 Posted : 03 June 2013 16:54:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Palmer20061

Haven't you answered your own question as you say they aren't UKAS accredited? We carried out a recent review of our suppliers for 18001, 14001 & 9001 and noticed quite a few that said they were certified, but if you looked at the end date of their certification quite a few exceeded the three year cycle of a UKAS accredited firm, so there are a lot out there that claim certification, but not through UKAS accredited bodies - came as a revelation to me that you could do that!
cheifinspector  
#4 Posted : 04 June 2013 08:08:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cheifinspector

In the oil & gas industry, a lot of companies will not make it onto an AVL unless the registration body is UKAS accredited. I haven't got first hand experience of receiving a certification audit from QMS but i have heard from some companies that it isn't much more than a document review and lacks any real depth to make it a worthwhile audit. They are happy to take your money and give you a certificate but ultimately, without the UKAS logo, it lacks credability. I would stay clear and use one of the establised certification bodies such DNV, LRQA, NQA, API, Moodys, BV etc. This will have much more value for your organization.
boblewis  
#5 Posted : 04 June 2013 10:26:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

This issue has been around for a while and QMS is one of a range of consultancies offering to put in place, certify and audit such as an SMS system to 18001. They do so with a fixed fee and a 100% guarantee of success - no surprise there as they charge nothing if you fail their certification audits Whilst UKAS is the best recognised and has clear standards it is possible to certify under other international bodies that do not have such high standards as UKAS for accreditation as a certifying organisation. Under freedom of trade it seems it is not preventable except by client bodies refusing to accept non UKAS certification. Bob
Paul Duell  
#6 Posted : 04 June 2013 11:26:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul Duell

I've never used QMS for 18001 but I came across them when I was back on the "dark side" working as a quality manager. Anyone can issue any certification against any standard system - it's only when you claim to have some authority to do so (such as UKAS) that you don't that you can run into trouble! In fact many companies are "self certifying" against 9001, 14001 and 18001. I seem to remember that back in those days one of the unapproved cert bodies (may not have been QMS) got into trouble with Trading Standards for selling their certifications as having more value than they did, but I can't really remember. You would think that the "guaranteed pass" nature of their system would make any thinking person question the worth of the certifications they're offering, but from the number of vehicles I see driving around with their logo (and that of other unapproved bodies), it seems they're getting lots of business. As someone before me said, we used LRQA when I was a QM for 9001 and found them excellent, and I'll certainly recommend them for 18001 when we go for formal certification.
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