Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Sweeney25568  
#1 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:19:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sweeney25568

Would just like to confirm something. I travel from home to my normal place of work each day in my own car, however I'm asked to travel to a different work location to attend a meeting. Whilst traveling to this different location, I have a car accident. Is this classed as an accident at work? Thanks
walker  
#2 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:24:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

IMHO Yes Make sure your insurance covers this I think it added a tenner to my costs
Scott.Daniel  
#3 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:34:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
scott.daniel

I see it as the training venue becoming your place of work. The insurance issue arrises if you travel from the training venue to your place of work as this journey then becomes a business trip.
bob youel  
#4 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:47:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

With all due respect Walker has hit the nail Any and all activities on the way to or from your 'none permanent place of work' is work related e.g. you are at work - getting payment for such travel etc. is another matter - I believe that this terminology originates in its current form from tax law but please correct me
Scott.Daniel  
#5 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:52:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
scott.daniel

Purely looking at this topic from an insurance perspective.
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 14 June 2013 10:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Directly from home to a different place of work is often NOT ''at work''. Are you 'on the clock'? Have you started working? Are you getting paid (salary or expenses) for that journey? The answer to all of these in my own employment position would be no, and I don't believe the Insurance Industry see that as a 'business' journey either.
ptaylor14  
#7 Posted : 14 June 2013 13:36:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14

Sweeney25568 wrote:
Would just like to confirm something. I travel from home to my normal place of work each day in my own car, however I'm asked to travel to a different work location to attend a meeting. Whilst traveling to this different location, I have a car accident. Is this classed as an accident at work? Thanks
No its an RTA, the only implication is that you have business insurance for the extra travel
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 14 June 2013 18:45:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Actually it's more of an interesting question than first meets the eye and I aren't sure to be honest. I am not entirely convinced that travellingto a none permanent place of work (of course some people don't have such, and many employment contracts state that you might be required to work at any location that the employer requires) is a 'hard and fast'' rule. Nor would I necessarily rely on a definition from HMRC and apply it to a 'health and safety' situation. For example, if my 'normal' commute was 25 miles, but I am asked to attend training that is 5 miles away (and let's say along the same route as I would normally take), are we suggesting that an accident on the way to this training event would be work related? 'Yes' would seem rather anomalous to me! So I think that Ron may well have a point. That this is an RTA doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't an accident at work. It MIGHT not be reportable under RIDDOR but that wasn't the question, and the specific circumstances of the accident MIGHT mean that it's reportable under RIDDOR anyway. I wonder if the Working Time Regs might help. It might not! "Working time' is defined as any period during which the individual is working, is at the employer’s disposal and is carrying out his/her duties or activities" "Working time’ does not include the journey to or from the workplace and home" Depending on the circumstances, insurance may not be too much of an issue. If declared, many insurers will not increase your premium for very occasional business journeys such as attending training courses. So, I don't think I've really answered your question, but perhaps given you food for thought. However, I would suggest that an RTA CAN still be an accident at work, the Produce Connection accident is such a case; it was an RTA AND a prosecution under HASAWA. Ps, I think RTC has superseded RTA as the preferred description. Ramble over, crack on!
RayRapp  
#9 Posted : 15 June 2013 21:21:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

If you are using your vehicle for business travel then you need to be insured. So far so good. If you are travelling to a different location than otherwise would be the norm, then in my opinion that is business travel. Hence any RTC should be classified as a work-related accident. There are some grey areas between driving from a safety, tax and insurance perspective. For example, if I'm driving to any place of work I cannot claim mileage for the first 12 miles, that is the company rule. I don't really have a normal place of work, so it could be argued that if I had a RTC within that 12 miles it is not a work related accident. I could, I'm sure, find an argument that is work related...just hope it does not happen. ps I do have business insurance for my personal car.
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 16 June 2013 00:41:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Police investigate reported traffic accidents, HSE accidents at work (RIDDOR). While it would be advisable to report the accident as an accident at work it will be a road traffic accident and should be reported to Police and car insurers. Insurers cover home to normal place of work and anything other needs to be Business Use insurance which costs nothing extra. Belt and braces ????????
Canopener  
#11 Posted : 16 June 2013 10:50:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I don’t think that it is quite a clear cut as that. There are protocols in place for ‘cross agency’ investigations for various situations including where there are or may be work related factors connected with an RTC. The Produce Connection case is such an example. The interesting thing about this case is that at the time of the accident the driver wasn’t actually at work, but this was an HSE prosecution, for what was in effect an RTC. There are various levels of business cover. Some (most) of which DO attract an additional premium (cost). If you declare very occasional business use (occasional travel for training might be such an example), you may not attract any further cost (and it may not appear on your schedule either) but frequent or regular business use and commercial business use WILL almost certainly do so.
biker1  
#12 Posted : 17 June 2013 16:53:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Most insurance policies stipulate social, domestic and pleasure, and that this includes travel to your normal place of work. If you are travelling somewhere else at the bequest of your employer, this could place you in a difficult position with insurance cover. Contact your insurance company, explain the situation (you should not be charged extra for occasional business use, but you will probably be asked to estimate the extent of annual mileage for this, since statisically you are more likely to have an accident when doing private mileage), and get them to confirm business cover on your certificate/policy.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.