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mikemait  
#1 Posted : 20 June 2013 19:29:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikemait

Due to a massive increase in building works I have been overwhelmed with the volume of pre-qualification risk assessments and range of formats (paper, CDROM, flash drives and emails). Is there any mileage in producing a Word/Excel template to try to simplify the process instead of comparing apples and oranges? Contractors would be able to add additional/specific hazards as identified during their risk assessment process. Any thoughts and advice welcome. Mike
Seabee81  
#2 Posted : 21 June 2013 09:06:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

Like a standard pre-qual questionnaire template?
David Bannister  
#3 Posted : 21 June 2013 09:12:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Shock/horror: you're not actually reading them all are you? They are largely irrelevant until the real work is about to start by which time it's too late to discover that the beautifully produced paperwork bears no relation to reality and has been routinely churned out by some overworked safety bod (or remote "consultant") in an office because that's what was asked for by the PC or client. Feeling very cynical today about rigid systems!
Ciaran Delaney  
#4 Posted : 21 June 2013 10:02:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ciaran Delaney

David, Unfortunately, I have to concur. They are largely cut and paste exercises. Some of the things that I have seen, would blow your mind coming in some of these.
Seabee81  
#5 Posted : 21 June 2013 10:52:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Seabee81

I reviewed RAMS from a contractor who charged us 2 grand to produce them and they hadn't even bothered to change their previous clients name to ours. How long does it take to run a find/replace!?
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 21 June 2013 11:23:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Why not encourage and accept prior accreditation by relevant commercial PQQ schemes and save yourself all this effort at pre-qualification? This will enable you to focus resource on the Project-specific issues at Stage 2. I admit to being wholly confudled by your statement: "Contractors would be able to add additional/specific hazards as identified during their risk assessment process." That doesn't sound like pre-qual activity?
mikemait  
#7 Posted : 21 June 2013 11:25:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikemait

I tend to agree with the general sentiments but the contractors know what the works entail and are familiar with specific site issues. The RA's they produce will be the basis for the actual contruction phase. We need to weed them out somehow and knowing they have thought of our concerns in context would give us some comfort apart from just ticking the compliance check box. Otherwise why bother at all? My main reason for asking was the accusation that we might be leading them down a specific route. If I'm to be honest, I'm as cynical as the next, I thought it worth asking if anyone had found a standardised process to be helpfull. Many thanks Mike
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 21 June 2013 16:02:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

What you describe sounds more like stage 2 evaluation. Stage 1: (prequal) prospective contractors have baseline competencies and resources (via commercial pre-qual preferably in the commercial world via CHAS etc.) Stage 2: Specific response to Project specific issues arising from design, construction, environment, site restriction, new or innovative methods of construction etc. Stage 3: On-Project or on-task evaluation (check that they're doing what they said they'd do (and priced for), complying with standards, providing welfare, etc.) Stage 4: Post-Contract evaluation of overall performance. For complex work, and for evaluation of Principal Contractors, Stage 2 is very important. For general routine trades works Stage 2 can be a simple confirmation of adequate resource being made available. In-depth (re)evaluation of RAMS, sending bits of paper back and forth etc. for the more routine stuff adds little or no value and is a bit of a waste of everybody's time. You can go light on Stage 2 here if you're prepared to resource Stage 3.
mikemait  
#9 Posted : 21 June 2013 19:04:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikemait

Thanks Ron I appreciate the advice. This is a new avenue for me and I found the additional workload a bit too much to handle. Regards Mike
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 22 June 2013 17:51:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Seabee81 wrote:
I reviewed RAMS from a contractor who charged us 2 grand to produce them and they hadn't even bothered to change their previous clients name to ours. How long does it take to run a find/replace!?
Is this an acceptable practice now, to charge for producing RAMS? I thought it was a requirement of H&S law?
jde  
#11 Posted : 24 June 2013 14:21:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
jde

Call me a cynic, but the "commercial" approval schemes such as CHAS etc do not prevent the paperwork of prequals as clients still look for paperwork. The whole SSIP is a money making exercise for consultants / organizations.
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 25 June 2013 14:09:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

jde wrote:
Call me a cynic, but the "commercial" approval schemes such as CHAS etc do not prevent the paperwork of prequals as clients still look for paperwork. The whole SSIP is a money making exercise for consultants / organizations.
I'm widely regarded as a cynic too, but let's not confuse cause and effect. IMO we should devote our efforts to selling the benefits of SSIP etc. to the doubting clients? These schemes are all about removing the burden of "paperwork" at PQQ stage. Perhaps there are clients out there who need to build and achieve confidence around that fact. Dismissing these schemes as 'money making' is I fear somewhat counter-productive. If these schemes were to fall, then contractors would also be back at square one, jumping through the paperwork hoops every single time. No-one can surely want that regression.
Julian Hunter  
#13 Posted : 25 June 2013 15:06:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Julian Hunter

have a look at schemes such as Builders Profile - this uses the cdm appendix 4 type of profile, so chas etc forms only a small part - have to submit examples of RAMS etc to support ticking "YES" in boxes - I then subjectively assess the docs so get a more rounded impression of a company. Once on the system they are able to bid for work. Can easily assess a company in an hour.
Ron Hunter  
#14 Posted : 26 June 2013 23:30:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

To be clear (this from the Builder's Profile web pages: "The Builder's Profile is NOT a pre-qualification scheme - it is a data collection and distribution scheme. It is not designed to compete with the commercial accreditation and verification systems such as Constructionline, Achilles and CHAS. Instead, it is designed to offer them a readily available source of information without the need for them to ask subcontractors to complete additional questionnaires. All the existing schemes have the opportunity to secure huge reductions in time and cost wastage for everyone by accepting the Builder's Profile as their base questionnaire." And if I may, a further caveat: Many PQQ schemes (SSIP etc.) do not specifically assess compliance with CAR06 Regulation 10 (Asbestos Awareness Training). It is advisable to confirm this at some point in the tender process whenever there is a possibility (however remote) of asbestos-containing materials being disturbed or encountered.
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