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richp  
#1 Posted : 01 July 2013 09:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
richp

The government have announced another review of health and safety.This time the review will be looking at European Regulations that could be abolished or reformed. The review will be business led and cover health and safety, employment law and company registration. A press release can be found here: http://news.bis.gov.uk/P...mpaign=Feed%3A+bis-news+(BIS+News)
Corfield35303  
#2 Posted : 01 July 2013 10:53:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Corfield35303

I cant decide whther this is a good thing or merely some political posturing, there is very little in the way of actual EU legislation in H&S, sure there are directives but it is the member states that enact these. And having read the article its hard to tell if they are looking at changing actual legislation or to redefine the regulatory relationship, or if in fact they are doing it to make a political point to reinforce what might be an anti-EU position, hmmm. I noticed the word 'demand' used in relation to taking up dindings with the EU, rather than 'negotiate', or 'discuss'........
walker  
#3 Posted : 01 July 2013 13:36:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I had a quick look at who is on the panel and spotted several company names who have recently been prosecuted for blatant H&S breaches and one who is know to sail very close to the wind with regard to employment law.
walker  
#4 Posted : 01 July 2013 13:39:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Corfield35303 wrote:
I noticed the word 'demand' used in relation to taking up dindings with the EU, rather than 'negotiate', or 'discuss'........
How else can they win back voters from UKIP
jay  
#5 Posted : 01 July 2013 15:24:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The BIS press release states that, "The work of the group will inform government reform and lobbying in Brussels and across Europe, as well as helping shape longer-term thinking about the impact of EU regulation on the UK. Business Minister Michael Fallon said: “The government believes in business, not bureaucracy. As well as stripping away unnecessary regulations at home we’re fighting hard to promote a pro-business culture in Europe. But our ambitions for growth demand quick action to clear away the rules that create the biggest burdens. “The men and women I’ve invited to help us to identify and remove barriers to growth represent small and large businesses, established firms and start-ups. They have an unparalleled body of expertise and unquestionable commitment to innovation. We’ll listen carefully to their recommendations and demand that the EU takes decisive steps to free up UK firms.” It is appears to be trying to influence at EU level and in any forum, one does not get anywhere by "denading"!
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 02 July 2013 13:26:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Political Posturing certainly, but perhaps more than that. Here's a quote from the BSI page given above: "Europe's share of world output is projected to fall by almost a third in the next two decades. Evidence suggests that excessive regulation and complex rules are part of the reason for the decline – and the government is committed to radical action to address this." Leaving aside the interesting notion that one can "evidence" a "projection", I suggest we all should be concerned that 'radical action' would almost certainly erode our employment conditions and protection to that currently enjoyed in China and the Far East. I'd be slightly more impressed if Messrs Cameron & Clegg were to expend a bit more effort in persuading those other countries to provide better protection to their workforces, but then that's not likely to win them too many votes I suppose. The above reference to a reaction to UKIP popularity is probably fairly close to the mark.
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 02 July 2013 13:57:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

ron hunter wrote:
Political Posturing certainly, but perhaps more than that. Here's a quote from the BSI page given above: "Europe's share of world output is projected to fall by almost a third in the next two decades. Evidence suggests that excessive regulation and complex rules are part of the reason for the decline – and the government is committed to radical action to address this." Leaving aside the interesting notion that one can "evidence" a "projection", I suggest we all should be concerned that 'radical action' would almost certainly erode our employment conditions and protection to that currently enjoyed in China and the Far East. I'd be slightly more impressed if Messrs Cameron & Clegg were to expend a bit more effort in persuading those other countries to provide better protection to their workforces, but then that's not likely to win them too many votes I suppose. The above reference to a reaction to UKIP popularity is probably fairly close to the mark.
So China is now the benchmark for H&S and employment law!
marcus_millett  
#8 Posted : 02 July 2013 14:30:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marcus_millett

The key must be to engage the consumer. If people understand that by purchasing sweatshop goods they will ultimately end up downgrading their working conditions the trend may be swayed. Could there be an opportunity for IOSH to team up with other organisations and charities to raise public awareness. Once turnover goes south vendors and manufacturers alike will soon take note. Perhaps someone should propose a motion to twin the Houses of Parliament with a sweat shop in Calcutta and see how many MP's take up the opportunity for a free visit. They should be used to passing motions in a crowded room. However if the government truly wish to be more like China it does not bode well for the current administration.
walker  
#9 Posted : 02 July 2013 14:43:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I'd suggest that the key is to engage the vast majority of UK companies that actually want to act ethically and have embraced the idea that safety is good for business. The laws and regulations are there to maintain a level playing field for them. If some cowboy undercuts a decent employer and someone gets maimed, we taxpayers have to pick up the pieces all the way down the line. Why the politicians can't see this is beyond me
johnmurray  
#10 Posted : 02 July 2013 17:48:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"all the way down the line" is being eroded as well. In the race to the bottom the slowest is at a disadvantage ! "engage the consumer"............... quite. Instead of a pair of nykee trainers at an overpriced 50 quid, considering they cost-out on production at less than a tenner, you want the consumer to pay 100 quid....guess what answer you'll get ? The "consumer" moans about losing his/her/its job to "immeegwants" and "sweat-shop-labour" and fails to appreciate that being paid 12 quid an hour led to his/her/its loss of employment, when the labour cost abroad is a tenth that (if not less). The race to the bottom is on guys....book your seat. Every institution, including the BofE, is now run by ex-big-four accountancy ex-employees....look at the wall...read the writing on it !
marcus_millett  
#11 Posted : 02 July 2013 18:17:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marcus_millett

The whole point is that the ethical UK employer is supposedly uncompetitive with international markets. The government is reportedly looking to reduce "bureaucracy" (read regulations and enforcement thereof and hence the cost of doing business). UK companies are already invested in the process whether by ethical choice or law enforcement and apparently suffering for it. The government spin is that the goal is to reduce the economic disadvantage of UK Companies and that the source of this disadvantage is "bureaucracy". The truth is that the cost of doing business in the UK is generally higher than other countries. This can be attributed to any number of factors including a lack of the NHS, Rehabilitative prisons, Human rights, Education, one person one vote. The cynical amongst us might be forgiven for thinking that this is just an excuse for unscrupulous business men to increase profits. The real danger is that in trying to reduce the cost of enforcement that the government will simply reduce the legal requirement. A more elegant way may in fact be to reduce enforcement but increase penalties for directors and shareholders if convicted of failures to comply with HSE laws. Should we require someone to die before directors go to jail. They have potentially been equally negligent even if no one dies. If shareholders care about money so much then clearly their pockets are the only way to get their attention. Simple fines for companies however are not the way forward as these weaken companies and reduce the resources for corrective action. Instead, why not take a legal claim on the company it's self and have the fine paid back with interest from shareholder dividends. Anyway, I digress. If we engage the consumer maybe they will finally realise that if they buy a brand the chances are that most of their hard earned money is going either into the tax coffers to pay for their well being or straight into the pocket of some multi millionaire, Italian (or American or any other nationality, but this seemed topical) tax evader. In fact a very small proportion of what they actually spend goes to the cost of material and labour. The point is as described below. Through global market normalisation we will inevitably end up with the same work conditions as someone in a sweat shop in Calcutta. If people choose to buy from companies who do not provide safe work conditions and fair pay for their staff, where ever they may be in the world then sooner or later (sooner if the media is to be believed) they will end up with the same conditions. The same applies if they choose to buy from companies that seek to enrich the lives of their workers. It is exactly the same premise as a democracy. Vote with your feet people.
marcus_millett  
#12 Posted : 02 July 2013 18:29:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marcus_millett

If only and international organisation existed that audits company's health and safety performance that could produce a register of accredited companies that people could refer to and make an informed decision on what products to buy. OH, WAIT!!
marcus_millett  
#13 Posted : 02 July 2013 19:18:03(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marcus_millett

walker wrote:
If some cowboy undercuts a decent employer and someone gets maimed, we taxpayers have to pick up the pieces all the way down the line. Why the politicians can't see this is beyond me
If HSE legislation is reduced then how long do you think the NHS will last?
marcus_millett  
#14 Posted : 02 July 2013 19:24:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marcus_millett

It will be interesting to see if the government would consider the same downgrade the UK corporate intellectual property laws. This really would level the playing field with other international manufacturing power houses.
Lunn15679  
#15 Posted : 02 July 2013 22:19:15(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Lunn15679

Stripping away 'unnecessary' regulation really worked wonders for the banking industry..... a massive financial crash! Mr Fallon take note...
johnmurray  
#16 Posted : 03 July 2013 06:02:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"If HSE legislation is reduced then how long do you think the NHS will last" Effectively, the "national" health service ceased to exist with the passage into law of the Health and Social Care act. The Dept of Health no longer pays.....the money goes directly to the commissioning groups. Hospitals can now derive 49% of their revenue from treatment of patients privately. You need to look at the way things are now done, NHS-wise. Referral of patients to private clinics from the GP is common, large amounts of physio is to non-NHS practices. In ten years time the only national thing about the NHS will be the national government paying private companies. (not forgetting that the vast majority of the GP practices are now under the remit, for day-to-day running, of private health "companies") Personally I have always wondered where they get the 7 billion cost of the Working Time Directive from....and since over 50% of our products produced are marketed in the EU, I am of the opinion that an EU-wide lowering of the "standards" will merely lower the standard of workplace health and safety and not improve competitiveness. Never forgetting that the small employer regards laws as a minor problem to be ignored anyway !
Victor Meldrew  
#17 Posted : 03 July 2013 09:00:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew

Its not so long ago that all & sundry, including myself, were saying how good 'we' are here in the UK, e.g. safety success of the Olympic Park project. And it was from my perspective anyway,an extremely well managed & safe 'build'...... tend to agree with walker in that it's a good vote winner, so I won't hold my breath on this initiative leading to anything earth shattering.
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