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tony28sage  
#1 Posted : 01 July 2013 21:10:14(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tony28sage

Hi all, My site is planning to go for 18001. I've researched into the requirements and I would say the SMS we have would seem to address the requirements. My question is what is a successful format for demonstrating this? In our internal site audits we have hard copy files to demonstrate compliance. I suspect electronic formats also work. Or would the evidence be in tabulated form with the requirement, the text about how this is achieved, maybe a direction to the system, then a sample of evidence (copies of minutes, inpections, training etc) Also any experiences of the audit "on the day(s)" would be most helpful Thanking you Tony
jontyjohnston  
#2 Posted : 02 July 2013 11:48:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jontyjohnston

Tony PM me with your email and I can pop you off some stuff. Been implementing 18001 for 12 years now! I have a nice gap analysis that you could use to evaluate your current SMS against the individual requirements of 18001. Jonty
DaveDowan  
#3 Posted : 02 July 2013 14:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveDowan

Tony PM me and i can send you soem good stuff which may help regards Dave
james fleming  
#4 Posted : 02 July 2013 15:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
james fleming

Tony, I don’t mean to be ‘picky’. Just in case you do not know. 18001 is not a ISO standard. 18001 is a BS OHSAS, standard. Yes, it’s used in many countries, but it’s not part of the ISO family. 14001 and 9001 are ISO standards or International Organisation for Standardisation. ISO is based on the Greek word ISOS, meaning equal. In other words whatever the country the standard is used it’s equally applicable. Good luck with 18001.
tony28sage  
#5 Posted : 02 July 2013 22:10:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tony28sage

Hi James, Thanks for the clarification, yes I did realise but slipped into incorrect terminology as I was looking into the other standards at the same time. Catch you later Tony
jay  
#6 Posted : 03 July 2013 09:52:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

After the publication of International Standards in Quality and Environmental Management as ISO 9000 and 14000 series that had started life as British Standards BS 5750 and BS 7750, there was an attempt by BSI to do the same for Safety Management Systems. Unfortunately, the BSI Technical Committee formed for this purpose, HS/1 could not reach a consensus on the route to follow for BS 8800 in the early 1990's. This led to a compromise in the publication of BS 8800:1996 in that it had both the HSG 65 route and the ISO 9001 route! Also, the majority of the HS/1 members did not want the BS 8800 standard to be avilable for "certification". This ultimately led to the Certification Bodies in conjunction with BSI, but not with the BSI HS/I committee publishing OHSAS 18001:1999 that was a termed as a "Specification" since it could not be termed as a "Standard". This was not accredited by any of the national accreditation bodies initially! At ISO i.e. international level, 2 attempts by BSI to initiate work on an international standard for Health and Management Systems did not materialise as the proposal did not get the requisite percent of votes. This was primarily due to in informal understanding with ILO-Worksafe that any "International Standard" for this would be led by ILO-Worksafe. ILO-WorkSafe to eventually published ILO OSH-MS Guidelines (ILO-OSH 2001). In the fullness of time, OHSAS 18001:1999 Specification became a de-facto international "standard" and a couple of national accreditation bodies, i.e. the Dutch and UK (UKAS) began accrediting OHSAS 18001:1999 for certification. This eventually led to the recognition of the revised OHSAS 18001:2007 by the BSI Technical Commitee HS/1 as a "Bristish Standard" and hence it designation as BS OHSAS 18001:2007 which was not the case with OHSAS 18001:1999 ! BS 8800:1996 was revised in 2006 when it only had the HSG 65 route, and now BS 8800 is superceded by BS 18004:2008 There is a decent summary on the HSE website, under the heading, "Comparison of HSG 65 with other key management ‘standards’ " at:- http://www.hse.gov.uk/fo...pect/mast/comparison.htm You also may want to refer to the excellent IOSH guidance, "Systems in Focus" at:- http://www.iosh.co.uk/id...ca257a19c&version=-1
tony28sage  
#7 Posted : 03 July 2013 20:34:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tony28sage

Hi Jay, Thanks for the history, I knew there was something that was not ISO but your reply was succunctly put. And I have already downloaded the system in focus publication. While I was familiar with HSG 65, thanks for directing me to the HSE link. The 2 previous contributors have forwarded some excellent links regarding the practical approach, so all in all I'm off to a good start Thanking you again Tony
james fleming  
#8 Posted : 03 July 2013 20:45:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
james fleming

jay wrote:
After the publication of International Standards in Quality and Environmental Management as ISO 9000 and 14000 series that had started life as British Standards BS 5750 and BS 7750, there was an attempt by BSI to do the same for Safety Management Systems. Unfortunately, the BSI Technical Committee formed for this purpose, HS/1 could not reach a consensus on the route to follow for BS 8800 in the early 1990's. This led to a compromise in the publication of BS 8800:1996 in that it had both the HSG 65 route and the ISO 9001 route! Also, the majority of the HS/1 members did not want the BS 8800 standard to be avilable for "certification". This ultimately led to the Certification Bodies in conjunction with BSI, but not with the BSI HS/I committee publishing OHSAS 18001:1999 that was a termed as a "Specification" since it could not be termed as a "Standard". This was not accredited by any of the national accreditation bodies initially! At ISO i.e. international level, 2 attempts by BSI to initiate work on an international standard for Health and Management Systems did not materialise as the proposal did not get the requisite percent of votes. This was primarily due to in informal understanding with ILO-Worksafe that any "International Standard" for this would be led by ILO-Worksafe. ILO-WorkSafe to eventually published ILO OSH-MS Guidelines (ILO-OSH 2001). In the fullness of time, OHSAS 18001:1999 Specification became a de-facto international "standard" and a couple of national accreditation bodies, i.e. the Dutch and UK (UKAS) began accrediting OHSAS 18001:1999 for certification. This eventually led to the recognition of the revised OHSAS 18001:2007 by the BSI Technical Commitee HS/1 as a "Bristish Standard" and hence it designation as BS OHSAS 18001:2007 which was not the case with OHSAS 18001:1999 ! BS 8800:1996 was revised in 2006 when it only had the HSG 65 route, and now BS 8800 is superceded by BS 18004:2008 There is a decent summary on the HSE website, under the heading, "Comparison of HSG 65 with other key management ‘standards’ " at:- http://www.hse.gov.uk/fo...pect/mast/comparison.htm You also may want to refer to the excellent IOSH guidance, "Systems in Focus" at:- http://www.iosh.co.uk/id...ca257a19c&version=-1
Erm, 'Like'!
suffolkman  
#9 Posted : 04 July 2013 06:15:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
suffolkman

18001 certification audits will follow a pretty standard pattern 1st Audit will be a gap analysis e.g how close are you to meeting the standard, 2nd audit will be review of progress towards achieving the standard the final audit will be the certification audit. Auditors will accept either paper or electronic evidence and will carry out site inspection and interviews with all levels of staff e.g directors to establish leadership commitment, operatives to establish actual usage of processes,work instructions training etc.my tips for making this painless: 1. Plan the project and carry out your own gap analysis 2. Get clear leadership commitment 3. Don't create additional documents unless absolutely necessary (we tweaked and used our QA processes for topics such as internal audit, doc control etc..) but do write a simple management system manual and cross reference your documents to the clauses of the standard 4. Make sure you involve the management team and other key stakeholders on site in the preparation 5. Be prepared for a lot of work 6. Don't take any non-compliances raised personally 7. Listen to your auditor - they have done this before!! We have found that using our management review presentation and minutes to brief the auditor on progress etc is also very useful Good luck
tony28sage  
#10 Posted : 04 July 2013 22:22:34(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
tony28sage

Thanks Suffolkman, Interesting and very helpful. Fortunately the present Company audit process involves staff interviews to check SMS impementation, 10% of staff are interviewed.I like the idea cross referencing a manual to the clauses. And I take note of the progress of the journey in the fact that the initial gap analysis is a start point, progress not perfection eh? Thanks again Tony
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