I am reviewing our permit to work system which said that the permit to work is signed off by "the relevant management sign off permits to work" I thought this was too woolly so am trying to tighten it up after heated discussion we have 3 options 1 The person bringing the contractor in is responsible for staying with them and signing the permit 2 The engineer team sign the permit 3 The Shift Manager signs the permit What happens on your site and which approach do you take? (we are a medium size food site)

Hi Ian We introduced a Permit system last year for a new plant (small company, high risk plant, around 18 employees), my stance on this from the beginning was that nobody signs or countersigns a permit without having taken a bespoke training course which was built around risk assessment and issuing of permits on our specific plant. So what we have is a cold work permit, which is signed by the operator issuing the permit, the permit can be written by the night shift ready for the day shift, so long as all isolations / control measures on the permit are also put in place. The issuing operator will then double check isolations before he issues the permit in his name. We then have a Hot Work Permit, and Confined Space permit, both of which must be signed by the issuing operator, and then countersigned by an authorised manager. The 'authorised manager' consists of 3 of us who have all attended the HW/CS Permit training course and have enough plant familiarity to understand the permitted task. Without being countersigned the permit cannot be issued. The system wasn't without it's teething troubles on introduction, but now the dust has settled we have no issues with contractor control. hope this helps :) Alan

Woolly indeed. A carefully designed permit pro-forma should make it perfectly clear who is responsible for signing what section, and most importantly what they are signing for - usually a confirmation that they are satisfied that something has been done. It often helps to maintain a list of named in-house individuals (listed against PTW sections if need be). The list also ensures that everyone gets the supporting training, information, instruction etc. they need to ensure the permit system works.

Ian, Following on from Ray's post, be sure to consider the extent of permit requirements (weekends / out of hours etc.). Also, you could consider a procedure to allow a notice period (e.g. 48 hours) for a permit request. This could serve a few purposes: 1. Resourcing - Authorised Persons can schedule their time accordingly (early starts / late finishes / weekend working); 2. Document Management - Early receipt of Risk Assessments / Safe Systems of Works for initial review by Authorised Person / A N other person; 3. Co-ordination - Authorised Persons can co-ordinate works with other teams (shop floor, maintenance etc). Simon

We have a list of people who are authorised to sign permits. These are people who it is deemed have sufficient technical knowledge to identify the hazards, who know the safety systems in place and who have sufficient information about the task. In reality, I sign most of the permits for works outside the normal machine repair remit and the manufacturing engineer signs the majority of the machine repair ones. In the event of major works we require RAMS and interviews and then the responsibility will be mine as the EHS guru.

Okay, here it goes...... 1) The person bringing the contractor in is responsible for staying with them A) no, this would be impractical and does that mean the contractor would have to leave when this responsible person finishes their shift? Also they might not have any responsibilty in managing or co-ordinating between shifts/working areas. Just can't see it working. 2) The engineer team signing the contract A) no, not unless they are to take full responsibility of the area? Again, they might not have any responsibility in managing or co-ordinating between shifts/working areas. 3) The shift manager A) yes, after all he takes responsibility for the area in its entirety. However, a robust system will need to be adopted to ensure it is successful. Looking into the failings of piper alpha would be a good start to study around before making any decisions. As long as the hand over process between shifts is robust then should be choice. Good luck

Or, to turn that on it's head, why do you need a strict permission regime during normal hours (when you can happily live without it out-of-hours)? Usual practice is to have a minimum 'watch' period after the works to ensure no possibility of fire?

I live just about 10 minutes walk from the plant so I will generally come back to work for any emergency out of hours works to do the permit and then leave in the capable hands of the night shift supervisor. We also have a list of "approved contractors" who, once the permit is issued, can then work unsupervised which makes life easier.