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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 22 July 2013 09:21:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

How far do you go with ensuring the roadworthiness of employees private cars for use on business; and is a valid MOT sufficient? Just wondering how far any duty on the employer would extend (and without going over the top). Many thanks.
hilary  
#2 Posted : 22 July 2013 09:37:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I use my personal car for occasional business use. The HR department holds a copy of my driving licence and I am expected to provide any details of any points or driving convictions. My personal insurance on my car covers me for business use and, obviously, I have an MOT and road tax. However, it depends on where the business is .... if this is planned to be overseas then there are other legal requirements to take into account such as breathalyser tests, fire extinguishers, hi-vis jackets, etc. You have asked an open ended question which probably needs a bit of clarification before it can be fully answered. Hils
achrn  
#3 Posted : 22 July 2013 10:11:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

With respect to the vehicle we require copies of insurance and MOT and either the service record or a signed declaration from the driver that they maintain it properly. We get a signed declaration that they will maintain all this properly and bring any relevant changes to the attention of the company. In the annual staff appraisal they are reminded of the need to advise the company of any relevant changes, but we don't require sight of the documentation or more signatures on an annual basis. We did at one stage have someone in HR who decided to try and write a great big specification for roadworthiness (ABS, disk brakes all round, so many airbags, NCAP at least something, etc, etc) but it fell at the hurdle of the MD's E-type Jag and one of the other directors ancient TR.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 22 July 2013 10:37:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Lots of people request and keep copies of licenses, MOT, Insurance. A waste of paper IMO, merely serving to introduce a potential for breach of the data protection act? I can't see the comfort (or exercising of diligence) in keeping copies of things. Would your people know a real licence or certificate from a home made fake or one bought in the pub? If they don't, then what's the point of looking? Where the Organisation's focus is on taking and retaining copies of things, even less attention is paid to scrutiny. Many other employers ask to be updated where the driver accrues penalty points - but to what end? Isn't a valid licence just that? The legal onus is on the driver. A legal (licence holder) driver isn't necessary a safe driver. An MOT is only valid on the day of inspection. Those lucky enough to have new cars won't need an MOT for 3 years - and various reports suggest that those drivers are more likely to drive with vehicle defects. Want to be proactive? Organise training on safe driving, winter driving, and vehicle maintenance. By agreement with your employees/TUs, arrange and pay for random spot-checks of private cars (heh! it's free!!) by competent mechanics (including the MD's E-type - those old Jags had very poor all-round caliper brakes).
achrn  
#5 Posted : 22 July 2013 10:57:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

ron hunter wrote:
Lots of people request and keep copies of licenses, MOT, Insurance. A waste of paper IMO, merely serving to introduce a potential for breach of the data protection act? I can't see the comfort (or exercising of diligence) in keeping copies of things.
I wasn't clear - we don't keep copies. We require sight of a set of paperwork once (which I regard mainly as an exercise in identifying to the employee that this paperwork matters and to see that they do understand the difference between insurance and insurance-for-business-purposes) and we require one signed declaration from them that they will keep all this stuff maintained and valid. They are reminded annually, we don't require any more paperwork and don't keep copies of stuff. The point about the E-type was precisely that - it comes nowhere near meeting modern 'safety' standards.
NickH  
#6 Posted : 22 July 2013 11:07:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
NickH

Keeping on topic, we utilise a 'car safety checklist' which is kept on our intranet. Anyone (car fleet or 'grey fleet') who uses a car for busines use (i./e. claims an element of expenses for fuel, etc.) is required to complete this form electronically quarterly. There are numerours questions on it, and it is a simple yes/ no form. However, if they tick 'no', they have to give details in an additional field before the form can be submitted.
B.Bruce  
#7 Posted : 22 July 2013 11:15:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

ron hunter wrote:
Lots of people request and keep copies of licenses, MOT, Insurance. A waste of paper IMO, merely serving to introduce a potential for breach of the data protection act? I can't see the comfort (or exercising of diligence) in keeping copies of things. Would your people know a real licence or certificate from a home made fake or one bought in the pub?.................Many other employers ask to be updated where the driver accrues penalty points - but to what end? Isn't a valid licence just that? quote] Ron, I agree with much of what you said other than the two points I quoted. Our insurance company requests this check to be carried out every 6 months. Our HR department checks licences for points and informs our insurer. However, we manufacture vehicles and have more than 200 employees on our drivers list - this may be why our insurance company is so interested in the validity (and convictions) of licences and licence holders.
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 22 July 2013 11:53:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

B.Bruce wrote:
Our insurance company requests this check to be carried out every 6 months.
Leaving aside the validity, tail-wagging-dog aspects, and the number of Insurers who aren't requesting such; I suggest there are more efficient ways to achieve that end. You might want to consider the man-hours your company spends meeting your Insurer's request and compare that cost with the cost of you (or preferably your Insurer directly) making similar authorised enquiries of the DVLA or via one of several other third-party providers.
decimomal  
#9 Posted : 22 July 2013 12:08:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Oh dear, I appear to have opened a can of worms with this. Thank you for the replies though, most interesting.
Adams29600  
#10 Posted : 26 July 2013 13:12:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Adams29600

Apart from the obligatory licence checks, we make a simple requirement of the employee that they must maintain the vehicle in a roadworthy, legal condition suitably insured for the intended use. This is deemed sufficient on the basis that it is the drivers' responsibility and they, not the employer, are responsible for the vehicle. It all really depends how much effort you want to put into this aspect of your operation and we have quite alot higher up the priority list.
colinreeves  
#11 Posted : 26 July 2013 14:23:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

Any user of private cars will, I expect, be claiming expenses (fuel or mileage etc). Our expense claim form has a declaration which has to be signed for each and every claim that the claimant has a current and valid driving licence and that their insurance covers appropriate business usage. Nothing about the roadworthiness of the vehicle though - no signature, no expenses!
wjp62  
#12 Posted : 26 July 2013 15:52:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wjp62

The following publication may be of interest. http://www.rospa.com/roa...fety/info/ownvehicle.pdf
johnmurray  
#13 Posted : 27 July 2013 15:41:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

"An MOT is only valid on the day of inspection" An MOT certificate is valid for 12 months from the date and time of its issue! Whether the vehicle is safe, or roadworthy, because of a valid MOT is another issue. Note the MOT itself: "A test certificate relates only to the condition of the components examined at the time of the test. It does not confirm that the vehicle will remain roadworthy for the validity of the certificate" A headlight may be cracked, but the vehicle will pass the test as long as the beam of the light is not affected. But that light could easily fail due to ingress of water on a dark wet night. A windscreen may be cracked, but unless the crack is within the swept area of the windscreen, the vehicle will pass. Brakes may pass, but be on the limit for efficiency and/or balance. Basically, your MOT is not worth the paper it is printed on, before it is even printed! My vehicle passed yesterday. The windscreen has a crack on the very bottom....and the steering box shows oil seepage. MOT pass though. As for insurance....ordinary would be for Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from a single place of work. The insurance above is NOT valid for use of your vehicle for driving ON YOUR BUSINESS. If you use SDP/work as above, and carry tools of your trade to/from work, you need to add "carriage of own goods" to your insurance.
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