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KevMac  
#1 Posted : 02 August 2013 11:07:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
KevMac

Hi

HSE's 'Press Release' for 1st Aug says this has been issued and is available on their website, but the links seem to just send me round and round in circles: anyone able to help?

Thanks
Kevin
imwaldra  
#2 Posted : 02 August 2013 12:01:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

You are correct about the press release, but there's nothing yet in HSE's 'What's New' listings - which I find more helpful. I suspect a slight mismatch, with release being imminent - as summarised in their HSG65 webpage http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/hsg65.htm, last updated on 7 July.
jay  
#3 Posted : 02 August 2013 14:22:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It appears that the contents of the new HSG 65 are already there , but not in PDF format at:-
http://www.hse.gov.uk/managing/


As stated in the press release, the new guidance moves away from using the POPMAR (Policy, Organising, Planning, Measuring performance, Auditing and Review) model of managing health and safety to a ‘Plan, Do, Check, Act’ approach. The justification appears to be that the move towards ‘Plan, Do, Check, Act’ achieves a better balance between the systems and behavioural aspects of management. It also treats health and safety management as an integral part of good management generally, rather than as a stand-alone system.


A paper was discussed at the HSE Board meeting on 13th january 2013 regardining "Managing for heath and safety’ (HSG65 Refreshed) i.e to update the Board on progress with development of the guidance
‘Managing for health and safety’ (to succeed HSG65 ‘Successful health and safety management’).

http://www.hse.gov.uk/ab...013/300113/pjanb1313.pdf

The minutes of the board meeting, point number 16:- at :--
http://www.hse.gov.uk/ab...013/300113/mjanb1301.pdf

Proposal to withdraw the Health and Safety (Management) Regulations Approved Code of Practice (ACOP). Includes Overview of the architecture of all Health and Safety Guidance and “Managing for Health and Safety” – HSG65 refreshed. (HSE/13/12 & HSE/13/13)

KevMac  
#4 Posted : 02 August 2013 16:02:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
KevMac

Thanks for the response imwaldra and jay.

I think I'll wait for the PDF..I always get lost trying to click back and forth..must be getting old.

BTW, I've never liked PDCA -
'Act', for one, isn't an accurate reflection of the actions involved...and also sounds the same as 'Do'.
I can't see the point of inventing a 4 character acronym if it doesn't work instantly in most people's minds.

Kevin
jay  
#5 Posted : 02 August 2013 16:19:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

PDCA is a well known acronym, initially used in Quality Management Systems, but now universally acknowledged.

http://asq.org/learn-abo...overview/pdca-cycle.html

Not surprising that at last HSE has decided to adopt it for HSG 65.

Due to the previous HSG 65 using POPMAR, the 1996 (1st) version of BS 8800 ( Guide to Occupational Health & Safety Management Systems) had both routes to managing safety! BS 8800:1996 was revised in 2006 when it only had the HSG 65 route , and now BS 8800 is superseded by BS 18004:2008 that has the PDCA route
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 02 August 2013 16:38:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The recent revision of INDG417 cements the principles of PDCA as a cornerstone of HSG65 rev.
I know I'm talking old-hat, but isn't there an I in the middle of POPMAR?

Nothing at all wrong with either approach, however I personally think that POPIMAR remains valid & valuable from the auditor's perspective?
garyc  
#7 Posted : 02 August 2013 21:51:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
garyc

I agree, it just seems to be in line with OHSAS18001 - repeat the circle or why change?
sadlass  
#8 Posted : 05 August 2013 11:20:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sadlass

I agree that PDCA, whilst established, is a bit awkward for this purpose. One variety of this has long been PDCR (review / respond / react - basically, feedback).

My preference: if anyone were to ever ask me!.

Identify
Assess
Action
Review

Works for everything from safety management to eating out . .
Doesn't make a nice acronym tho.
It's from EU.
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 05 August 2013 11:31:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

So ‘Plan Do Check Act’ is the same as POPIMAR only different headings! The graphic mentions under PLAN- Policy and Implementation, DO includes Organising; Check includes monitoring and ACT includes Reviewing. Can we run a spot the difference competition?
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