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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2013 22:21:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

You may think I should have the answer to this but I don't!

I have a neighbour, next door but one, who burns household rubbish in his back garden, and the smoke always comes my way.

He uses an incinerator (metal dustbin on legs with chimney in the lid).

Obvious issues regarding smoke entering my house and making the house stink of smoke, washing - drying on the line having to be re-washed, having to exit the garden because of the smoke, even in the recent lovely sunny weather and trying to eat outside........................

There is a health aspect in the form of my son who suffer Asthma and is bothered by the smoke.

I have had a word with him - and so have the local fire service who attended twice but apparently we are allowed to burn rubbish in our garden.

Our council have issued every household a brown bin for garden waste, but also charged for emptying the brown bin every two weeks. Those signed up for the service have paid £30.00 and have a large sticker on the bin for the bin people to see. They do not empty brown bins without the sticker.

My neighbour does not have such a sticker on his brown bin.

I hear I can complain to the council and keep a record but will this achieve anything?

paul.skyrme  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2013 22:28:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Try the EA?
Have you told the council it is affecting your sons asthma?
Tell him to stick his garden rubbish in a black bag rather than burning it?
Round here the council collect all recyclables & waste FOC, provide as many plastic, paper/card, food & garden waste receptacles you need.
However, you have to buy your own black bags if you use more than the allowance they give you.
chris42  
#3 Posted : 06 August 2013 23:08:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Offer to buy him a £30 sticker if he can't afford one, life is too short.

Not what you wanted to hear, but you know what I mean. Hastle the LA though as it's their policy for charging you twice for taking the same rubbish away. Tell them you will pay for his sticker, then recoup your money by selling your story to the Daily M....

PS those metal bins rust away after a few years.
Canopener  
#4 Posted : 07 August 2013 09:03:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

It can be a tricky one, one mans pleasure is another mans poison!

You firstly suggest that the neighbour is burning household waste but subsequently refer to garden waste. Household waste is collected free by the LA, so there is no need to burn this. Garden waste isn't a statutory, but rather a discretionary function of the LA.

Regardless, 'bonfires' can be very unpleasant and have a detrimental affect on those in the surrounding area. It MIGHT be a statutory nuisance, although you should be aware that 'nuisance' is highly subjective and determined by a number of different factors such as frequency, time of the day etc.

If you feel that it is a nuisance, then your first step is to enter into 'friendly' and non-confrontational dialogue with the neighbour to explain the problem and try to suggest/reach a compromise, rather than telling them to stop. You are more likely to get a result if you keep it non confrontational. You should also be reasonable and keep things in proportion i.e. you may have to accept that an occasional bonfire is inevitable. If this fails then you should contact the pollution team at your local council to explain the situation and seek further advice.
grim72  
#5 Posted : 07 August 2013 09:44:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I have an incinerator too - I probably use it once or twice a year at the end of the season when I have a lot of waste to get rid of after cutting back trees/hedges etc. Usually everything goes in the browm bin and taken away once every two weeks but when I have too much I will light a bonfire.

Despite the infrequency, and despite the fact I always check the neighbouring gardens to ensure there is no washing out, I still had one neighbour stick his head over and threaten to call the police because I had a bonfire (in a contained incinerator) going in my garden one Saturday evening.

If he'd asked nicely I'd have stopped it but his attitude just saw me throw some extra leaves on and kept it going that little bit longer (petty I know).

At the end of the day, he's entitled to burn his household waste - maybe ask if he's able to do it at certain times/days that have minimum impact on you/others?

But if he's like me then the likelihood is that he's only able to do it on a weekend (when the weather allows it) due to work.

Never an easy thing to get around when it comes to neighbour disputes (whatever they may be - noise/mess/bonfires etc). I have an annoyance with a neighbour's cat using my garden as its toilet but I just have to grin and bare it unfortunately (and throw the odd bucket of water in its direction when the opportunity arises).
grim72  
#6 Posted : 07 August 2013 09:45:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

*I meant garden waste (not household waste). Oh for an edit button :-)
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#7 Posted : 07 August 2013 09:57:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Hardly an issue for this Forum, but anyway...

Smoke from garden fires can be a statutory nuisance if dense or persistent and frequent. Your recourse is via that route, raising the issue with the LA EHO service.

Just don't expect that you are in some way special and deserve intervention. You will be expected to provide evidence and it has to be considerable to constitute a statutory nuisance.

And don't expect friendly neighbours who, such as grim42, may delight in being deliberately unpleasant. Neighbour disputes are never easy. There are other times to hang out your washing. Or substitute the foul smell of your cheap burgers on the BBQ for someone else's garden waste and consider that your actions are somehow more acceptable.

Was there any good reason to call the Fire Brigade? Once might be understandable, but call them twice and why should you not get a charge to reimburse the taxpayer for the second vexatious call that was intended just to get the upper hand in your neighbourly grumblings?

Graham Bullough  
#8 Posted : 07 August 2013 10:47:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

Firesafety101 - Firstly commiserations about the anti-social neighbour.

If other neighbours suffer in the same ways as you, hopefully they'll also make their views known to the neighbour and have a greater collective influence on him than just you as one individual. However, depending on what he's like as a person, others might understandably feel reluctant to approach him.

If he's burning household waste, it would be worth asking if he does it because his bin gets overfilled and results in the local collectors rightfully rejecting it because of problems with the emptying mechanism of their vehicle.

From observations of various overfilled wheelie bins and also static bins, it's evident to me that many simply become full because users make no attempt to flatten space-guzzling items such as boxes, milk cartons and other plastic containers. It's not difficult to flatten such items. For example, if a small amount of hot water is poured inside a plastic milk carton and then tipped away, the plastic becomes soft enough to enable it to be considerably flattened and then retain its new shape after it cools. Also, many of the non-recyclable plastic trays and containers in which food is sold nowadays readily flatten on their accord when a small amount of boiling water is poured into or on them. (In anticipation that some forum users may respond to say that this method is dangerous, please consider first how you manage with kettles and boiling water to make hot drinks at home, especially if there are young children around!) Therefore, if the neighbour has problems with volumes of waste which seem to exceed his bin capacity, try suggesting volume-reducing measures like those above to "avoid the void".

The situation you describe sadly exemplifies a phenomenon by which increasing numbers of people in the UK know their rights in great detail but choose to ignore their responsibilities and consideration for others. Anyhow, hope you and other affected neighbours ultimately have success with the neighbour.
Psycho  
#9 Posted : 07 August 2013 10:49:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

point out to the council that the Waste (Household Waste) Duty of Care (England & Wales) Regulations 2005 introduced a new duty on householders. in that

Anyone producing waste, including householders, is legally responsible for ensuring it is disposed of without endangering health or harming the environment. This applies to any type of waste that is unsuitable for disposal in your dustbin and unable to be taken as part of the weekly household waste collections.Which includes garden waste

The Waste Regulations 2005 make householders legally responsible for ensuring their household rubbish is only passed on to an authorised person for disposal, or to a person for authorised transport purposes.
Canopener  
#10 Posted : 07 August 2013 17:17:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

psycho wrote:
point out to the council that the Waste (Household Waste) Duty of Care (England & Wales) Regulations 2005 introduced a new duty on householders. in that

Anyone producing waste, including householders, is legally responsible for ensuring it is disposed of without endangering health or harming the environment. This applies to any type of waste that is unsuitable for disposal in your dustbin and unable to be taken as part of the weekly household waste collections.Which includes garden waste

The Waste Regulations 2005 make householders legally responsible for ensuring their household rubbish is only passed on to an authorised person for disposal, or to a person for authorised transport purposes.


With the best will in the world, I don't think most (any?) council will need to be reminded of this; it will almost certainly be 'bread and butter' to them! Realistically, I don't think that these regs are for the most part 'concerned' with people having bonfires for garden waste.

If disputes such as this are not able to be settled by mutual agreement, then contact the pollution team at your local council, who may be able to advise, arbitrate or if they believe that there may be a statutory nuisance, potentially take action.
Corfield35303  
#11 Posted : 08 August 2013 16:29:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Corfield35303

ian.blenkharn wrote:

Hardly an issue for this Forum, but anyway...


Yes it is:

"Here you can discuss health, safety and environmental issues in the broadest sense - risk management, environmental protection, healthcare, hygiene, education, quality management or business - the topics are endless"
Steve Granger  
#12 Posted : 08 August 2013 17:33:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve Granger

if you complain to the local authority EHO smoke is classed as a statutory nuisance under the EPA and they are required (by law) to investigate on your behalf.

Not saying do it - just saying what is.... it is the same for noise from neighbours.
User is suspended until 03/02/2041 16:40:57(UTC) Ian.Blenkharn  
#13 Posted : 08 August 2013 18:39:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian.Blenkharn

Corfield35303 wrote:
ian.blenkharn wrote:

Hardly an issue for this Forum, but anyway...


Yes it is:

"Here you can discuss health, safety and environmental issues in the broadest sense - risk management, environmental protection, healthcare, hygiene, education, quality management or business - the topics are endless"


Do you add to your list whingey neighbours who can't get on with each other, or worse those who threaten to behave in a wholly despicable manner?

I suppose if it escalates to fisticuffs and someone really gets hurt, you can categorise it as a health matter but surely nobody else would see it that way. I'd call that a matter for the Police, and I dare say so would the Police.
Canopener  
#14 Posted : 08 August 2013 18:41:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Do be aware, that neither smoke nor noise are a statutory nuisance in themselves. Nuisance is highly subjective and is dependant upon a number of factors such as duration, frequency, time of the day etc etc. While the LA has a duty to investigate, they may not determine that a nuisance exists.
firesafety101  
#15 Posted : 09 August 2013 16:03:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Thank you for all your comments, both positive and negative.

I have had a chat with Local Authority who will attempt to make contact with the neighbour.

He told me that while it was allowed to burn in the back garden it should not cause a nuisance in the way I described it to him i.e. having to rewash the washing on the line, having to close doors and windows and having to leave the garden because of the smoke entering the garden.

I will wait and see what happens next, I assure you there will be no fisticuffs, I've been in the elf'n safety game too long now and have learned patience when dealing with disrespectful people.

Have a good weekend all.

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