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ctd167  
#1 Posted : 06 August 2013 09:36:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

We provide our operatives who go out on site with safety glasses, issued against a risk assessment, which we treat as disposable and replaceable due to the nature of our work.
We issue spectacle wearers over glasses for exactly the same reason.
One of our spectacle wearers has now asked that we provide him with prescription safety glasses free of charge as its classed as PPE, because the over glasses are not comfy to wear, and steam up.
Because we treat this item as disposable and replaceable, it is not 'reasonably practical' to use prescription safety glasses under the same criteria.
I am 100% certain these will become unfit to use in a short space of time, due to the nature of our work.
Any thoughts guys?
SW  
#2 Posted : 06 August 2013 12:28:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SW

Up to your goodself to evaluate the overspecs against prescription. PPE regs state along the lines of ensure PPE is suitable, appropriate, take into account ergonomics, they fit correctly and prevent / adequately control the risk.

We supply all of our shopfloor workers with prescription specs as they are worn 8 hours a day and the risk is high, but some of our Drivers have requested overspecs which we also supply them with as they are probably only worn 25% of their working day and the risk is a little lower.

Really up to you to decide
Mick Noonan  
#3 Posted : 06 August 2013 13:38:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

You should get him/her the glasses.

The cost isn't a factor here as the overglasses will cost you too, over time. Prescription glasses will last longer and be cared for better.

I could fill a page with reasons to get the prescription glasses but I think better for all concerned that you do a forum search on this first as the answers are already out there.

If, due to the nature of the work you believe the glasses would get damaged anyway then perhaps a full face shield might be of benefit. Protecting the face as well as the glasses.


M
ctd167  
#4 Posted : 07 August 2013 12:07:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

Thanks for your input guys.
We purchase over glasses at £1.20 a pair, the operative in question is asking for prescription safety glasses to the value of £140.
Doing the maths, its a no brainer.
I'm still of the opinion that over glasses are the right solution, given that they are for general purpose use anyway.
Carol B  
#5 Posted : 07 August 2013 13:17:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Carol B

Prescription safety glasses do not have to be that expensive, using a voucher system from Specsavers we pay £36.81 per pair of glasses. As a glasses wearer I would go for a correctly fitting pair of prescription glasses over a poorly fitting pair of over glasses every time
Mick Noonan  
#6 Posted : 07 August 2013 16:21:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mick Noonan

Carol is correct.

The employer is only required to pay the ammount that gets the job done.The operative can have any glasses they want as long as THEY pay for the additional cost.

The operative has the right to ask for, and receive, prescription safety glasses. The terms are yours, however, not theirs.

Again, there's plenty in the forum history on this to answer any further questions you may have.

jay  
#7 Posted : 07 August 2013 17:04:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

cdt167,
You have stated that , "....because we treat this item as disposable and replaceable, it is not 'reasonably practical' to use prescription safety glasses under the same criteria......."

What is the frequency of disposing & replacing?

From personal experience, employees tend to take better care of their safety spectacles if they are issued better quality and fit models on an individual basis, rather than helping themselves to cheaper models from a storage/ dispenser unit.

Secondly, what is the eye-protection against as there are limitations regarding prescription safety glasses.

If the lenses of prescription safety glasses meet the protection standards, and the nature of the activity is such the replacement frequency is reasonable ( say every two years) then for comfort aspects, prescription safety glasses should be provided. Please note that comfort of the person is a factor that has to be considered whilst assessing the suitability of PPE

Regulation 4(3)(a) to (e)of the PPE at Work Regs lists factors which determine whether PPE is suitable. It includes taking into account the person and in that also comfort.
jay  
#8 Posted : 07 August 2013 17:08:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

The cost of prescription safety glasses from specsavers is dependent upon the nature of the correction. Single Vision ones cost less. If the employee has varifocals, they cost an extra voucher worth the same amount. i.e double the cost.
Canopener  
#9 Posted : 07 August 2013 20:57:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Back to basics! What you haven't mentioned is what you are protecting the operatives from, how often they would have to wear the specs and for how long; all of these will help to inform the decision as to whether to buy prescription safety specs or not.

I don't think your 'argument' that you consider safety specs to be "..disposable and replaceable.." can be used to justify that buying prescription safety specs isn't reasonably practicable. Can you elaborate on your reasoning?

If the need to use eye protection is infrequent and/or of short duration, then over glasses may be acceptable, whereas if use if frequent and/or of long durations, then he 'argument' for buying prescription safety spec is likely to be more convincing.

I would also agree that it may not be necessary to pay the amount you suggest.
DaveDaniel  
#10 Posted : 08 August 2013 16:12:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveDaniel

It's worth pointing out that the HASAWA only prohibits charging for personal protection. British Leyland had this issue in 1976 and operated a policy of part-payment which was run past the HSE before implementation. The Group Safety team at the time (me and my boss) coined the motto "We pay for protection, you pay for correction". The scheme was implemented across the workforce (100,000 in those days) alongside providing fitted plano specs. We felt this gave no excuse for not wearing them. Those with prescriptions paid a wage deduction for their contribution.

This made specs affordable and more economic than keeping throwing away thousands of scratched and damaged overspecs and because workers contributed to the cost, they did tend to look after them.

There were of course those for whom this was inappropriate but these were a small minority.
ctd167  
#11 Posted : 08 August 2013 16:53:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ctd167

We work on power stations where the need to wear safety glasses for general use is enforced all the time.
We undertake general tasks where task specific eye protection isnt required, fitting nuts and bolts, wrapping materials around items, moving materials, etc but the general area's of work are dirty, hence the fact we see general eye protection provision as disposable and replaceable.
My belief is whilst our operatives would probably take better care of there prescription safety glasses, i couldnt see them lasting more than a few months due to the environment they work in.
Canopener  
#12 Posted : 08 August 2013 17:02:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

DaveDaniel wrote:
It's worth pointing out that the HASAWA only prohibits charging for personal protection.


Dave, I would suggest that section 9 extends wider than merely the provision of PPE.

"No employer shall levy or permit to be levied on any employee of his any charge in respect of ANYTHING done or provided in pursuance of any specific requirement of the relevant statutory provisions.".

Caps added for emphasis.
achrn  
#13 Posted : 12 August 2013 10:16:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

carol b wrote:
Prescription safety glasses do not have to be that expensive, using a voucher system from Specsavers we pay £36.81 per pair of glasses. As a glasses wearer I would go for a correctly fitting pair of prescription glasses over a poorly fitting pair of over glasses every time


Last time I asked Specsavers (less than a year ago) they told me they couldn't supply prescription EN166 1F(T) glasses at any price, so assuming they can supply what the OP requires for £36.81 per pair is rather a leap.
hilary  
#14 Posted : 12 August 2013 12:54:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Please can you explain what the (T) is on EN166 1F(T)?

I have bifocal (top plano, bottom reading) for the factory which are EN166F so I assume from the key that these are safety glasses with low impact resistance. The lenses are N 1F which is the highest optical quality with low impact resistance and non-misting. I could have these in CR39, polycarbonate or toughened glass and they all come from Specsavers.

Mine were more expensive as I wanted bifocal and polycarbonate lenses, but the standard single vision are £36.81 so unless the T stands for something completely random, I do not understand why they said they could not do it.
achrn  
#15 Posted : 12 August 2013 15:15:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

hilary wrote:
Please can you explain what the (T) is on EN166 1F(T)?


Stated performance is maintained at lower than room temperature. F only requires that the impact resistance be tested at room temperature, so if the glasses are cold they might not have any impact resistance at all.

Our operatives work outdoor night-shifts year round, and I don't consider glasses that only have impact resistance if they are at room temperature to be appropriate. 'T' means they need to provide the specified performance down to -5C (and up to +55C, but that's not relevant to us).

Overglasses and non-prescription glasses are relatively easy to get in 1F(T) (we generally provide Bolle Squale and Cobra respectively, but there are plenty available), but prescription glasses are much more challenging.
hilary  
#16 Posted : 12 August 2013 22:22:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

Thank you for the explanation. I can see your difficulties now.
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