Rank: Forum user 
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Hi All
Have been following the debate on the CSCS Card Scheme.
Coming from the rail industry as a construction manager we did not use CSCS, but i noticed on major projects (Blackfriars) that the principle contractor did bring it in for their use, for the none railway works.
As the client (Network Rail) i looked into this practice, and to me it seemed an easy way for major contractors to use agency staff and not really carry out any proper training since they would have insisted that all their agency staff providers, only send CSCS certified operatives, and when i looked into what that involved, getting hold of a question & answer book (Not a lot).
Obviously we would have insisted that they had the correct certification for the rail side of things.
So to me since the CSCS Site operative card only covered the basic of site H&S with no actual information only the answers to the questions, I would have expected a good site induction to give the operative better knowledge and since I would expect an operative to receive site inductions at every site, I could not see the point of the cscs card especially where the operative needs to pay out £17.50 for the Multiple choice question & answer book, £17.50 for the Test and then £30.00 for a card. (Which does last for 5 years) but then if they decided to do any other cscs test e.g. working at height, then its off to get another Q&A book, another test, and having to have another card which on the back would just have added the WAH bit. Plus for those rich enough you can also get the dvd.
I think companies need to go back to good old in house training covering their works and safety issue related to it.
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Rank: Forum user
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Moving on:
At present i am working as an H&S advisor for a company and one of our clients is insisting that all our operatives working on their works have cscs cards. One point I noticed is no one seems to ask for any trade specific cscs cards. So any cscs card will do.
Easy option is to have everyone undertake the cscs test, they receive a certificate which last 2 years, cost £17.50.
They can then get a green site ops card at a cost of £30 which lasts 5 years from the date of their original test.
All I need to do is sign their form to say they are competent. Job Done.
My carpenters can have trade cards if they hold relevant NVQs, NVQ 2 Blue Skilled Card, NVQ 3 Gold Advance Skilled Card. They still need to undertake the basic cscs test £17.50 and if they want a nice looking blue or gold card just add £30. Since some have the basic cards, i have told them not to bother applying for their trade cards until their current one runs out, in some cases that will be in 4 years time unless they wish to pay out another £30 pounds, so some have trainee cards, some have the green construction cards, some have blue skilled cards even though they are now NVQ 3 level and can have the gold cards.
For my poor plumbers, i sent all their details to cscs, but got the lot back since you have to send all to the JIB for cscs cards, but alas where some of my plumbers have been attending college for a few years have been completing their city & guilds in plumbing studies to level 3 City & Guilds, i have been informed that these qualifications are not worth anything. So even though we class them as plumbers (No gas working) they can not get any trade cscs cards – so the good old green site ops card for them.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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RLC wrote:Since some have the basic cards, i have told them not to bother applying for their trade cards until their current one runs out,
We do the same - so have some people on graduate cards even though they currently qualify for PQP.
RLC wrote:So even though we class them as plumbers (No gas working) they can not get any trade cscs cards – so the good old green site ops card for them.
We have people that don't fall into any of CSCS's categories, but need a card because they go onto sites where clients require them. We put them all on 'site visitor' cards.
In the most extreme case I have a highly expert geologist (multiple degrees, multiply published author in international technical journals) but because CSCS doesn't recognise the (various) technical institutions and bodies he's a fellow or member of his CSCS card is 'site visitor' - the one for people who frequently visit a construction site, but are unskilled.
But actually, I've given up worrying about CSCS. Compared to the other frustrations from stupid client requirements the fact that everyone has to do a trivial touch-screen test once every five years is a pretty minor one. If anyone's ego is so fragile that they think CSCS categorising them as unskilled really matters, they're likely to have bigger worries. I've certainly got bigger worries than expending effort on being concerned that CSCS thinks my geologist is unskilled.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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All very well until you or your colleagues are blocked from site on arrival , or as the case with a number of major players by the site HR department days or even weeks before the intended visit.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user
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If we have to have them then fine. Easy enought to get and better than nothing
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Rank: Forum user
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And lastly for me, hmm what card can I get.
20 years site management / H&S Advisor
Loads of training courses completed – none seem to match any NVQ equivalent that cscs seem to want.
For site management:
Black Management Card – No
Gold Supervisors Card – No
Hooray - I can get the green site ops card. Test £17.50 + £30 for the card.
The only way to go is green, its all mine, I have spent 20 years in gaining knowledge & training to achieve this card.
For being an Health & Safety Advisor
Have IOSH Managing safely in the railways and NEBOSH Construction, plus undertaken lots of other H&S related training.
I can have a nice red trainee technical card, but it only lasts 3 years. £17.50 + £30 for the card –Guess what – yes you guessed it, go for green, costs are the same but the card lasts 5 years.
Agree with Acrhn - none to worried on what cards my ops hold.
But as John M mentions, it was tried, as the client working for Network Rail our principle contractor started to try and stop us getting on our own sites, since we did not have cscs, this was after we complained about the lack of training their operative were receiving and told them that the cscs card on its own was not good enough.
It was agreed that our PTS cards would be ok, had to laugh, since the PTS personal track safety card is for track working and not for building sites unless you expect a train to go whizzing through the site at 100 mph.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I have tried to speak to a person (anyone) at CSCS to thrash this out
Today I have spent 142 minutes (several calls made to the 03 number) with the usual run around of options and repeated messages. They suggest you go "on line" where there are no answers to your particular query- so its back to the telephone. I reckon they (CSCS) are getting paid by BT to test your patience (and pocket). Eventually (after 142 minutes of trying) I heard the ringing out tone -possibly to a call centre as there was heavy background discussions going on. The guy was unable to answer my query!
On Tuesday I have to sit the renewal CCNSG card course which is I believe a level -1 "qualification". This will allow me continued access to M&E sites.
This is a complete nonsense but has to be done.
There is an old saying Power is nothing without Control .It seems that these outfits are controlling us.
Again a call to IOSH - engage and bring some sanity to this circus.
Jon
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Rank: Super forum user 
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John M wrote:There is an old saying Power is nothing without Control .It seems that these outfits are controlling us.
Without doubt - extremely frustrating and there is very little that 'we' can do
John M wrote:Again a call to IOSH - engage and bring some sanity to this circus.
The 'silence' says it all I think Jon - debate and/or discussion would at least be a start. Perhaps those that could affect change do not have a requirement to join '.....this circus'.
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