I understand we are regarded in a similar light to estate agents by the general public. The question is whom should be insulted estate agents or ourselves particularly in view of HSE FFI ?

Really? That's a new one on me! I fail to see the relevance of FFI in relation to the (rather absurd) question.

Prehaps look for a new career if this concerns you so greatly? Prehaps consider a new employer or new industry in which to practise your trade? I don't consider PAYE estate agents to earn great money.

Loving this post!! We look after around 13 chains of estate agents. Are you saying that on the grounds of percieved social popularity, being a H&S Advisor to Estate Agents will not make me many new friends :o(

as high as an estate agent? Thats interesting as I get the feeling that the regard is lower that is given to door to door loan sharks - the press and its masters have done a good job

Firstly, i think some people need to lighten up. It was quite obviously a light hearted question. Maybe it was purely to get a reaction or spark a debate but behind all of that, there is a valid point being made. Personally if i was meeting somebody new down my local, i'd rather say i was an estate agent than a H&S advisor/officer! I'm not ashamed of what i do, far from it. I know that, along with the majority of the people in the industry, i do it for the right reasons. I want to make sure that people go home each night. The thing is i just can't be bothered with explaining to people what H&S is ACTUALLY about! I just tell them i work in construction management and then try and change the topic to something else! The problem is that Joe public, along with a good proportion of the contractors i deal with on a day to day basis will still blame us for everything from the "Banning of Conkers Act 2012" to the "You Need Training To Carry A Tray Of Drinks Regulations 2013". The press print this rubbish and the majority will lap it up. Most people don't see, or even know, the difference between H&S consultants, the HSE, insurers, overly cautious employers or ban-it-all councils. To these people, we're all just "The Elf & Safety" and we're all responsible for the fact that their kids can no longer climb trees. We know the difference but in the majority of cases, they don't. We're all tarnished with the same brush. It seems the original poster has got a bit of stick for mentioning FFI but i for one can see a connection and some validity tothe point he/she was making. If i was to bump into a bloke in my local who runs a small building contractor who'd just been hit for a couple of hundred quid under FFI and i told him that i worked in H&S, i'm pretty sure it'd be my fault. At best i don't think he'd offer to buy me a pint! So to summarise, in the popularity league table i think we're just below estate agents. Fortunately though, i think we're still a good few points clear of traffic wardens.

I do it for the money. Not to ensure people go home every night. If that was the case I would be a millionaire many times over. What is a troll? Jon

For years whenever I've been asked what I do for a living, my usual response has been to say I work in occupational safety and health (OS&H), and I never felt any shame or reluctance about this. I would tend to add that it's vastly different from "elf & safety" as portrayed by the media! I've had a wide range of reactions which understandably reflect the extent and nature of understanding/experience, if any, of OS&H by those who ask. Most people seem to have some degree of awareness that OS&H is about protecting people from harm, and it's been quite rare for anyone to be hostile to me about it. One considerable advantage I'm fortunate to possess is that of being able to talk to most people about their occupations and work activities. This stems especially from having encountered a very wide range of occupations, work places and activities during 10 years as an HSE inspector until the late 1980s. When asked during my HSE years, I rarely felt reticent to say 'factory inspector'. (For a number of years after the inception of HSE, it was the norm for its general inspectors to use the title 'HM Inspector of Factories' in correspondence and on visiting cards, etc., even though the title on their warrants was 'Her Majesty's Inspector of Health & Safety'.) I found that people running guest houses and B&B establishments where I stayed during extended business trips for HSE in Northern Scotland would react to my answer by telling me about relatives and friends who worked at places they thought weren't very safe. They then asked if I could go to check the workplaces and ensure that improvements were made. Therefore, it was sometimes tempting to say that I worked for 'Inland Revenue...special investigations, would you believe?' in a hushed and furtive tone of voice. If I happened to be holding my briefcase, the crown motif and E-II-R marked on its lid helped to give this erroneous answer some credence. Anyhow, the name 'Inland Revenue' usually stifled any further enquiry or discussion! However, if I had remained with HSE, I suspect that I would be very reluctant to say HSE inspector nowadays because I think FFI (okay in principle, atrocious in practice) has adversely skewed/distorted how inspectors and their work are regarded/perceived by various classes of people including employers, line managers, probably employees, politicians and journalists, etc. p.s. It's surely rather tame to compare estate agents with OS&H professionals. Is anybody intending to mention bankers (well, senior ones with hefty salaries and massive bonuses and not front-line staff working in bank branches and call centres) when discussing which occupational group/s are believed to be held in the greatest contempt by members of the public?!!!

I am glad some people were able to see the lighter side of actually quite a serious issue. Generally HS people care about their fellow man and therefore it is a shame we are categorised as social pariahs. I think the law needs to change FFI is going to really damage the industry and I also think HSE Inspectors like the Taxman have too many powers and enjoy throwing their weight around. IMHO I think the law should concentrate on training rather than reams of often ignored paperwork. Anyway thank you for joining in.

Quote. "The question is whom should be insulted estate agents or ourselves particularly in view of HSE FFI ?" My answer is that neither should be and to even try to rank who should be insulted is a strange approach to the matter. Social pariahs? A very strong assertion and extreme definition to use isn't it? Where is the evidence for that or is it simply anecdotal experiences? My long experience is the opposite. Respect for the professionalism of individuals whilst railing against the controls that the subject introduces is not the same as casting others as social pariahs. FFI ruining our world? Unpopular in some quarters; considered as unhelpful by some OSH people but there is also a body of opinion that can see how it can be used to advantage. Have we simply accepted the negatives as yet another handy prop against insults and criticism? Inspectors throwing their weight around and the law is an ass? Perhaps you could expand with some examples and also explain how the law focusing on training would improve matters? The bottom line is that working in OSH is never going to be universally popular but that doesn't make it any the less worthwhile or rewarding. I focus on that and don't let such matters as raised by your question get in the way. They are just a nuisance that we could do without but have to manage and try to move beyond. Linger too long and we risk becoming becalmed in a sea of self pity.

Victor- I want to wish you a long and happy retirement. Please dont be a stranger as I enjoy your regular posts. bcj, I think its about perception and education. In my experience those who have been afforded a better education and work as team players respect our role and incorporate it into their work. Others who like to micro manage or be decision makers are often misinformed with regards occupational health and safety and sometimes make decisions in the spur of the moment which they have to roll back on, and then blame "health and safety" for not allowing them do what they want. While we do not have FFI here in Ireland I can imagine it will do nothing but damage to the perception of health and safety and to our profession by proxy. Kevin

Many thanks Mandy & kevkel, I'll do my best and I'll keep on doing my bit on the forums...... much to the annoyance of some I imagine ;-)

And if you do find you would like to go back to work I know of serveral organisations who need a provider of stairway safety training.

Wot? Another fellow "dinosaur" exiting the world of H&S. Soon, I will be the last remaining member of the species. Jon

We will look forward to your musings from the golf course!

Victor, I commute daily from...... Shawford Railway Station, Hampshire (the scene from the final episode of Victor's demise in One Foot in the Grave). Rather than reflect on that sad day, I'll now be able to toast your happy retirement - when next in the Bridge (pub next to the Station) and to your good health. Happy days! All the best Simon

Thanks Simon - if I'm down that way, mines a pint of 'Spitfire'...... well it would be wouldn't it?

As indeed I do - West Wales to be precise but haven't changed my image . Was this just an election enterprise? Jon