Rank: Forum user
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Interesting story !
http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...k-england-essex-23974522
A case of an employee possibly using their intuition and bravery to rescue a disabled member of the public after an accident, only to be suspended, with the prospect of disciplinary action against them for breaching company policies/procedures.
A 100 years ago, you would have probably been awarded a bravery medal, today you now risk the sack !
While the story only contains limited information , that is insufficient to make a judgement on the case, if it was me lying on the tracks, I know what I would want to happen. After all we have all seen stories reported in the press of the 999 emergency services not rescuing someone face down and unconscious in knee deep water because the risk assessment tells them only specialist water rescue teams can perform such a rescue, resulting in the person drowning before the specialist team turn up !
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Rank: Super forum user
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I happen to agree with the train company....I am sure there would be the opposite rhetoric on here if someone had been praised for not wearing their fall protection!...I am sure the investigation will highlight the fact that the person did the right thing within his experience, qualification and training...but they just can't say I'll ignore that..
As for drowning incidents...having been to a few most bodies have been in the water for hours and it is then more body recovery than rescue..the risk management principle used is we would commit resources to rescue saveable lives...no point risking the lives of 6 firemen or specialist paramedics (HART) when the person is already deceased..there is a lot of pressure put on the emergency services through peoples uninformed perception of events which hinders the safety message we are all trying to promote..if it was my loved one.,..even knowing what I know I would jump in..(As they say round these parts 'nowt as queer as folk eh!')
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Rank: Super forum user
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Without all the facts it is difficult to ascertain the risks involved. I am aware of the correct process for accessing the track by railway staff. These are in place to ensure the safety of people on the track.
The prima facie evidence suggests the station staff acted spontaneously and bravely to protect the life of a person. So I would expect any investigation to take this into account...as well as whether they followed the correct procedure.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I too agree with the train company.
I note, despite the rhetoric in the press, that he hasn't been sacked, he's been suspended while an investigation is conducted. If he was a banker suspended during an investigation the press would be in uproar that he wasn't sacked and outrage that he'd been put on cushy gardening leave.
And with respect to the OP, I've seen stories in the press of all sorts of rubbish that never happened, and I don't know of any case of someone face down in water known to be knee-deep until the specialist team arrived. Basing your choice of action on stories that never happened is not the act of a rational person, in my view.
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Rank: Super forum user
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suspended on full pay during investigation, long standing practice.
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Rank: Forum user
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By all means suspend the individual for "allegedly" breaching policies and procedures.
However, treat him the same as a member of other professions, Members of Parliament, medical profession senior managers and others who finds themselves suspended.
On full pay until found guilty.
In this case, somehow, I doubt it.
Rodger Ker
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Rank: Super forum user
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I hope I would have the guts to have helped. H&S can be stuffed up the hole in your culture on times (L.C.). If it were your son or daughter would you wish someone would have helped out? Policy? Human beings?
Well done who ever you are
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Rank: Super forum user
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jfw - a very overly emotional response on the basis of very limited information from a newspaper article.
Hardly established facts are there.
Do you work for the Daily Mail by any chance???
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Rank: Super forum user
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Suspension (on full pay) while an issue is investigated is pretty common, but it does sometimes strike me as harsh. From an administrative point of view it's a neutral action (no blame, no loss of benefits). The trouble is that the employee concerned, their friends, family, colleagues and often managers see it as a punishment, and this can have a significant negative impact on company morale, and thus buy-in to working safely together. The flip side of course is that suspension can be necessary as a drastic, but temporary, risk control measure - I recommended this in a case earlier this year.
We don't know the facts here so can't talk about this case, but I often get the feeling suspension can be too automatic an action in some companies.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Interesting story - that is exactly what it is at this stage. Truth will probably be less interesting and again probably not even make the news, with a strong likelihood that unless you live in the locality of the original incident or involved with the industry and/or people, not get to know the truth. Which may subsequently lead to another myth being created for the H&S bods to dispel.
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Rank: Super forum user
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We are H&S professionals, we moan, groan and gripe that we put processes in place to protect people, for their safety. Someone brakes this process and we applaud him, he is a hero. However from my understanding the train was on its way into a station and the correct process for stopping the train was not followed, which could have resulted in the death of the worker and the members of the public which jumped onto the tracks to help.
Did he do the right thing from a moral point of view, yes. Did he do the right thing from a health & safety perspective, no.
How differently would this have been reported if they had all been hit by the train, would he still be hailed as a hero then or would the train company be held accountable for not ensuring the safety of its workers?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I can understand why he did what he did, but as a railway worker he know the correct procedure for stopping trains before entering the tracks. By doing what he did he placed other members of the public, who were assisting the person, in danger also. His responsibility should have been to ensure the tracks were kept clear. If he did not do this nobody else would.
In a similar fashion there was an incident over here a couple of years ago where a worker was overcome with fumes in a silo. His co-worker did not follow procedure and vent the silo externally and instead rushed to his assistance and died alongside the worker.
With regards the OP mentioning of river rescue there was a case recently whereby the ambulance services would not treat a person on a boat which was docked until fire and rescue arrived and removed the ill person to dry land. They were offered new lifejackets by a local supplier. It took the fire service 25 minutes to arrive as they were a retained service.
Sometimes procedures are implemented for the correct reasons but there can be justification for not strictly following them from time to time.
I hope this post comes accross as a balanced view and not contradictory.
Kevin
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Rank: Super forum user
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You beat me to it Mr Fibble. Stupid slow computer did not refresh the topic quickly enough!
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Rank: Super forum user
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As gramsay rightly pointed out at #9, suspension is a neutral action used by various organisations to enable circumstances to be investigated. However, too many people, including suspendees, their friends, relatives and colleagues - and evidently journalists keen to publish a story - misperceive a suspension to imply that a suspended person is guilty and that the related investigation has a foregone conclusion.
During the 1990s I heard that a manager of a centre for young people had been suspended while an investigation was carried out into alleged financial irregularities. The manager was promptly reinstated after investigation found that the allegations were unfounded and had probably been made by a disgruntled former employee. However, as bad news usually seems to travel faster and stick longer than good news, I wonder if the manager was left with some taint in the minds of some people.
While on the subject of misunderstood words, I guess that quite a proportion of people think that being prosecuted is the same as being convicted. In fact it just means being accused of a crime and then tried in court where the outcome for any charge can be a verdict of 'guilty' (conviction) or 'not guilty' (acquittal). I'd better add that in Scotland there can be a third verdict of 'not proven' where a judge or jury has insufficient evidence to convict but is not sufficiently convinced of the accused person's innocence to give a 'not guilty' verdict.
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Rank: Super forum user
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01f4yyv
1 hour 42 mins (ish in) - IOSH's views.
I agree with Mr Flibble et al.
We don't have enough facts, it's far to emotive, and there should be emergency procedures to ensure the tracks are safe before entering.
How did the IP ended up on the tracks in the first place?
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Rank: Moderator
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teh_boy wrote:..............How did the IP ended up on the tracks in the first place?
This matter is subject to British Transport Police Investigations, so is best not commented on in these Forums at this stage
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