Bob Although the intention of your question remains somewhat obscure, it seems to be phrased a bit better than the earlier version you asked, by the explicit contrast now between 'volunteer' status and PAYE status. Reflecting on my limited experience in volunteer management, I'm inclined to view the matter along these lines 1. it is failure to include volunteers in an employee health surveillance system that requires justification 2. where more than a handful of volunteers are involved. it may well avert a lot of confusion and waste o management time if all standard briefing abut the status of volunteers explicitly states (1) in writing along with the assertion that they receive no payment, just in case a tax inspector has reason to look into the situation some years later when no member of management has clear spontaneous recollections of the original situation 3. Misalignment of provisions associated with tax and with H & S are result from how relevant primary and secondary legislation emerge to suit the negotiated preferences of representatives of the people in parliament, and not employers, volunteers or staff of HMRC and HSE. The muddle is profound: according to the President of the Employment Tribunals of England and Wales, David Latham, in a talk he gave to the S W London branch of the CIPD last March, successive Home Secretaries have effectively ignored collective opinions expressed by judges in response to 'consultation'. The most cost-effective line of action is to document your understanding while the matter is one of calm, administrative routine without more than normal pressure.

Bob The general principle is you treat non-employees as employees. So, without more information about what health hazards these volunteers may be exposed to and the frequency in comparison to employees I would argue that volunteers should receive the same treatment as employees. Furthermore, even if volunteers are not adequately protected in criminal law the employer could still have a civil law duty of care for their health, safety and wellbeing. Ray

Thanks all; and as said previously the HSE have yet to answer the question in any form of detail Example situation: 1: On one side of a path in a park is an employee undertaking strimming and the other side of the same path is a volunteer undertaking strimming where both use the same kit for the same period etc. and one [the employee] is subject to a HS program because of HAVS, noise etc. and the other [the volunteer] is not 2: Parents undertaking construction activities in schools over the school holidays where employees would be subject to HS systems because of the activities yet the parent volunteers are not The reason behind the Q? is that with the continued use of unpaid volunteers the duties of the controllers, employers etc. may also have to include HS for their volunteers which at this time is not costed / considered - the problem is nation wide and many many many thousands of people may be at risk/involved yet no proper consideration systems are in place that I know of - I am just trying to get opinion/thoughts etc. Charities: Whilst the HSE do note some areas with regards to charities they do not talk about volunteers used by employers who are not part of charities but are simply stand alone volunteers Bob

Ray I am on your side and agree that best practice etc. is the way to go and I am just putting feelers out for opinion etc. The biggest big thing with volunteers is that it costs nothing for their services however if volunteers need health surveillance etc. things change dramatically for the user of those volunteers especially so as half of the countries employers use and rely on them e.g. everthing from schools to allotments, parks and waterways Note: I know one organisation that received £4m last year because of its volunteers via grants etc. and that same organisation will not even supply a pair of gloves to those very same volunteers who brought the money in and the employer has made redundant etc. their employees who used to undertake the work that the volunteers now do! NB: There has been recent cases where volunteers won cases of unfair dismissal against users of their services and won cases via the DDA even though they were volunteers and not employees via contracts of employment so its a very complicated area hence my feelers