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mssy  
#1 Posted : 19 September 2013 22:57:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Thankfully not one of my jobs, but a mate has completed fire risk assessment job in an retailers Head Office building where some sleeping accommodation is provided for (up to 8) staff visiting from branches across the UK. He is now arranging a suite of emergency plans At night, the only member of staff on duty is a security guard, who - during an emergency - already has 101 things to do, so cannot possibly do a roll call or sweep The office is in a high st location and there is no outside space or suitable inside room for 'sleepers' to assemble. There's no fire wardens at night to sweep the sleeping area and nobody to complete a roll call. So how should this RP account for his staff out of hours? NB: There are hundreds of staff that may use this sleeping accommodation during the year - and use it very infrequently, so using staff to carry out any such function is not viable
Safety Smurf  
#2 Posted : 20 September 2013 09:29:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Is sleeping accomodation within the permitted use of the building?
CliveLowery  
#3 Posted : 20 September 2013 09:35:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

From experience - a lot of people when overnighting like to have a few sherberts and are often difficult to wake. Obviously reducing the risk of fire etc is up there on the list of control measures but I would ensure that a very loud alarm system is installed and whatever measures regarding evacuation are in place form part of the arrival procedure into the accommodation. How do you know who is in on any particular night? This will have implications as to whether or not the Fire Service enter a burning building or not. A good tip would be to seek their advice. Regards Clive
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2013 10:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Good one this mssy, How do hotels check their guests in a fire evacuation? How do hotel guests know what to do in an evacuation? I was in a Hotel last year in Cornwall when the fire alarm actuated and only four people began to evacuate - me, my wife and my two kids. You could have a policy whereby every person who stays overnight collects a Tally at the entrance and replaces it on leaving (every time)? That way there is a simple count of tallies but it will depend on everyone playing the game according to the rules.
mssy  
#5 Posted : 20 September 2013 17:21:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Safety Smurf wrote:
Is sleeping accomodation within the permitted use of the building?
Yes
mssy  
#6 Posted : 20 September 2013 17:23:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Firesafety101 wrote:
You could have a policy whereby every person who stays overnight collects a Tally at the entrance and replaces it on leaving (every time)? That way there is a simple count of tallies but it will depend on everyone playing the game according to the rules.
We have discussed the tally option, but with several hundred staff to train - its not possible to get staff compliance anywhere near 100% of the time. Plus there are 4 x staircases so staff might leave from any one. After dismissing your option (!) I have to say, it maybe the only option. Unless anyone here has a better idea?????
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 20 September 2013 17:44:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Is there someone with responsibility for organising roll call, calling frs etc? If so could they be tasked with taking the Tally Board to the assembly point to enable tallies to be collected? I think you agree you will not get 100% but you will get the best you can get?
Frank Hallett  
#8 Posted : 28 September 2013 14:31:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Sorry folks - but the information provided in the original question indicates that a great deal of attention has to be paid to creating specific procedures for managing the overall fire exposure of this group of people. This will mean a specific FRA that considers all of the foreseeable circumstances that might arise [including occupants being unable to be woken for a range of reasons inc jet-lag]. It may mean that additional measures will have to be put in place in order to demonstrate that these visiting/sleeping staff are acceptably safe under all foreseeable circumstances. One way forward could be to consider the situation as similar to a hostel [not hostile or hostage] situation. Frank Hallett
chris42  
#9 Posted : 29 September 2013 12:30:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

From the original question I don't see if you are to use a tally system that people signing in / out of a register would be any more cumbersome. If they forget to sign in / out they will also forget to take / put back a tally ! Also slightly curious about the :- "only member of staff on duty is a security guard, who - during an emergency - already has 101 things to do" 101 things during a fire more important than making sure the people are out ? Fascinating. Does he/ she remain in the burning building while doing the 101 things? Just MHO, no offence meant Chris
mssy  
#10 Posted : 29 September 2013 16:01:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

chris42 wrote:
Also slightly curious about the :- "only member of staff on duty is a security guard, who - during an emergency - already has 101 things to do" 101 things during a fire more important than making sure the people are out ? Fascinating. Does he/ she remain in the burning building while doing the 101 things? Just MHO, no offence meant Chris
No offence taken! The security guard will be the the security control centre (SCC), some six floors away from the bedrooms. I cannot think how a SSOW can be created to allow him/her to proceed to the bedrooms to carry out a sweep. Those in the bedrooms will have one of 3 staircases to choose from and access back to the SCC is not possible at night. The guard will stay in the building during a fire, only abandoning his post if the SCC is threatened. Plans are in place for a second security guard on nights, but as the SCC must be manned, a sweep of the 6th floor is still is not achievable
chris42  
#11 Posted : 29 September 2013 16:21:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Ok how about:- those staying sign in, somewhere, the guard can easily access ( or is brought to the SCC by someone at end of shift). There is a fire, the sleepers evacuate to a point with a phone and report in that "x" number have made it out. "X" = "X" number on sheet at SCC - everyone safe (or not) when reporting to Emergency services. No training just big, big notice on door to sleeping area (also on sign in book). Just a thought Chris
Frank Hallett  
#12 Posted : 29 September 2013 18:12:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Good start - but the premises controller will have to have really effective measures in place to either restrict travel thoughout the building for these people, or have a really effective means of locating & alerting them to the emergency [whatever that may be]. Frank Hallett
firesafety101  
#13 Posted : 29 September 2013 21:51:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Do the sleeping bedrooms include accessible rooms for disabled (wheelchair) users? If they don't they should????? In that case and where there are passenger lifts involved there should be a Refuge for the wheelchair users, with communication system set up between the Refuge and the Security Control Centre. The refuge may be large enough to accommodate a wheelchair user and 7 others.
mssy  
#14 Posted : 29 September 2013 22:28:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Thanks to all who have contributed: There's no doubt that some kind of signing in/tally arrangement is the way forward. For various technical reasons, that may be difficult - but there simply has to be a change. The bedroom occupants are 99% staff, so will be easier to communicate with and apply such a policy than if they were customers at a hotel. All I have to do now is to get management to support I propose and the job's a good un. Thanks again (PS There are no 'disabled' rooms as staff with mobility issues will be housed in hotels and not in the office)
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