Given that Lithium batteries appear to be the most dangerous items on the planet right now – if one believes all the Haz Goods services & goods delivery providers; I am seeking credible, definitive, and accredited evidence of any event [fire, explosion, leakage, etc] where lithium batteries of any type [other than the Dreamliner events] that have been unequivocally identified as the source [not simply present or affected] of the event from any jurisdiction, not just UK or EU. Please don't bother with unattributable anecdotal stories. Yes, I know about ADR, DSEAR etc. I look forward to an informed response & debate!! Frank Hallett

Thank you for the response Colin - I do not deny that your suggestion is a worthy contestant if this was really about "what is the most dangerous item on the planet" [after us that is]. However, my comment re most dangerous item on the planet was exclusively referring to the way that perceived hazards of lithium batteries are being pushed by the HazMat service providers & also avoided by blanket bans by the regular parcel & packet delivery organisations. My interest is to attempt to establish exactly what the real level of the problem is. Thanks Frank Hallett

very interesting and most helpful Motorhead. I'll take some time to separate & categorise those on the US FAA list Now, do we have a UK or EU equivalent of that list out there somewhere; and is there a collated list that identifies road, rail & sea cargo incidents please? Frank Hallett

I have one report from a government agency which describes a small fire in a bin which seemed to have been caused by (old)lithium batteries being stored there. The batteries were loose and terminals seem to have come into contact with each other.

I can't help much Frank, but I know the cost of spare camera batteries tripled in the new year. Royal Mail won't handle them now, in case delivery involved aircraft at some stage.

I am aware of some ongoing scientific research that is investigation the safety of lithium metal and lithium ion batteries. The research is cloaked in commercial confidentiality but has made some initial findings that are useful. I am not a scientist but am aware of some of the work done but I cant go into any detail. I can say that the findings point to amazingly reliable manufacturing quality with a minuscule failure rate that many industries would love to achieve. It's clear that whilst the batteries don't like being mishandled, it is defects during installation of devices, overcharging and mechanical abuse, such as sawing and drilling through them which is far more of an issue than their transportation (statistically wise). One area for consideration and further research is making batteries accessible for firefighting. For example, those used in certain aviation applications are inaccessible if they become overheated. Redesigning the environment where they are sited to allow easy access for use of FFE or other intervention by air crew is considered by some as the only way forward as lithium batteries are here to stay. I also understand that research is underway looking a new less volatile electrolytes used in lithium ion cells - I am sure they would sell like hot cakes and be very profitable My employer uses a large number of such batteries for scientific & medical research:- some standard packs and others are quite large. We have some which are stored in bulk. We have strict handling and storage procedures to reduce the risk of fire which include as a baseline, a strategyof separation and containment. We store the batteries in minimal quantities in various locations. For the larger batteries with hold them within metal or graphite filled containers, and again in minimal quantities separated by 3hr fire compartments. We also have graphite DP extinguishers available http://www.chubb.co.uk/u...5%26siteId%3D403,00.html Batteries for recycling (of all sizes) are placed in individual bags with the terminals insulated for collection by specialist contractors If you think that lithium batteries can create special issues in fire, how about the next generation of cells which have up to a million times the energy of lithium - nuclear batteries - http://phys.org/news/201...lear-battery-closer.html

http://www.icao.int/safe...n-Lithium-Batteries.aspx http://www.iata.org/publ...tery-transportation.aspx

Not sure what you mean by policy, but CDG Regs 2009 would be the statutory provision. And of course ADR as well (as you previously mention)

That was RM internal post policy Frank. Try also: www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods/business

My fault probably, I should have added "see also" to the url. Most, if not all, problems occur with puncture of the cell/s, or faulty charge routines.

Thanks to both John & motorhead John, your latest post indicates a knowledge of actual events relevant to my initial post - can you either share them here or we d me a personal email please. Frank Hallett

Thanks for getting back on that John - whilst one personal experience is worth a thousand anonymous anecdotes I regret that it doesn't really take me much further. Despite the apparent levels of concern generated by commercial carriers, judging from the feedback so far, it appears that there really isn't that much to substantiate this - other than the incidents recorded in the US related to the use of airplanes. Still, let's see what next week brings. Frank Hallett

Many thanks for that useful info John. However, my original, and continued, interest is in incidents occurring by road/rail and what the evidence base is that is used by so many to refuse to carry lithium batteries. As an offshoot though, it would be interesting to know what evidence base was used by the CAA to institute the ban that you refer to - any info on that please? Frank Hallett

Many thanks MSSY, useful for the future - but I really don't need the "rules" for carriage by air, or even CDG [was in my original post] - I'm looking for definitive data about real events involving carriage of lithium batteries by Road or Rail within the EU or UK that can be substantiated. Frank Hallett