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Birchall31628  
#1 Posted : 01 October 2013 08:39:23(UTC)
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Birchall31628

Hello I just wanted other persons viewpoints on this. I know this all comes down to risk assessment so no model answer. We have two floors in our building and we have no external rear fire escape on the upper first floor. On the lower ground floor we have two exits but only one straircase in the centre of the building. I am wondering is my only real solution to have an external fire escape staircase put in? Is this a common sense solution, and more importantly is it a legal requirement??
David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 01 October 2013 09:06:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

You have really answered your own question - R/A. Reference to the relevant Guide will point you in the right direction, taking in to account the fire load, construction, the level of compartmentation, the occupants and numbers, the alarm arrangements etc. It may well be perfectly adequate to have only the single escape stairs (as many thousands of premises) but as the decision depends on so many variables it is not possible to give a definitive answer.
Birchall31628  
#3 Posted : 01 October 2013 09:10:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Birchall31628

Thanks David
Frank Hallett  
#4 Posted : 01 October 2013 10:15:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Good morning Birchall Given the very brief details provided it is almost impossible to provide a detailed response. No dimensions, number of persons on the upper level, use of upper level & lower levels, etc. However, on the assumption that you are referring to a comparatively low fire risk occupancy [offices] I would go with Davids response but especially consider any ground floor cooking or similar foreseeable source of fire & smoke and whether it is enclosed, in conjunction with the means of detecting a fire and raising the alarm as these will be critical to defending the retention of an open stair. Frank Hallett
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 01 October 2013 10:24:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I'm with Frank and David but would suggest if reasonably practicable protect your single staircase with half hour FR doors top and bottom. As previously stated it is down to your fire risk assessment - is there such as assessment? If so what does it say about your means of escape? If you have a fra and are still not 'convinced' was it carried out by a competent assessor and why not contact him/her for further advice, I assume it was paid for?
stephie  
#6 Posted : 01 October 2013 10:48:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stephie

I have just had a visit from a fire officer who wanted to check our premises out and his main issue with regards to fire escapes was the travel distance. 'If there is only one escape route, the travel distance should not normally be more than 18 metres. This distance should be shorter (12 metres or less) in any parts of the premises where there is a high chance of a fire starting or spreading quickly. The distance can be longer (up to about 25 metres) where the chance of a fire starting or spreading quickly is very low' Hope this helps a bit!
Frank Hallett  
#7 Posted : 01 October 2013 11:21:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Hi Stephie & Birchall Following on from Stephies post - This is where a good working knowledge of App Doc B, BS999 and their relationship with the FSO is essential! The quote provided on travel distances is not "the legal requirement" as that no longer exists in the context of the FSO and generally is not enforceable as such. I agree that, as a basic "rule of thumb", the distances quoted are long-standing and originally derived from the Fire Certification regime. That no longer exists for the majority of premises, and the distances are subsumed in the Building Regs Approved Doc B and into BS 9999. Approved Doc B is "the standard" reference [similar to an H&S ACoP] for most fire safety officers, but you can use just as legally use BS 9999 as an alternative - and this will give you greater flexibility in topics such as travel distance provided you have a competently produced FRA that considers, amongst other things, those items that I identified in my previous post. Also, please note in your quote the existence of "should not normally" and "should" and the adjacent phrases that are, in essence, no different to "so far as reasonably practicable". Frank Hallett
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