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aland76  
#1 Posted : 01 October 2013 14:10:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

According to Dave Charnock, HSE policy lead for the revisions to RIDDOR, we are back to an over 3-day reporting window for RIDDOR

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pr...icity&cr=01-Oct-2013

More proof-reading needed methinks
aland76  
#2 Posted : 01 October 2013 14:13:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
aland76

Or maybe I need to read more closely, I've confused myself whether he's talking about reporting or recording over 3-day accidents :P

chris.packham  
#3 Posted : 01 October 2013 14:30:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham



As an occupational skin disease dermatitis is reportable.

I find it interesting that the HSE has still not recognised that some occupational skin diseases are not considered medically as dermatitis. The new version of RIDDOR mentions latex allergy, which is a type I urticarial response, in the list of occupational skin diseases that should be reported, even though contact urticaria (which is what latex allergy is) is not medically considered to be dermatitis.

“Occupational dermatitis
Dermatitis is reportable when associated with work-related exposure to any chemical or biological irritant or sensitising agent. In particular, this includes any chemical with the warning ’may cause sensitisation by skin contact’, or ’irritating to the skin’. Epoxy resins, latex, rubber chemicals, soaps and cleaners, metalworking fluids, cement, wet work, enzymes and wood can all cause dermatitis. Corrosive and irritating chemicals also lead to dermatitis. Construction work, health service work, rubber making, printing, paint spraying, agriculture, horticulture, electroplating, cleaning, catering, hairdressing and florists are all associated with dermatitis.
Dermatitis can be caused by exposure to a range of common agents found outside the workplace. If there is good evidence that the condition has been caused solely by such exposure rather than by exposure to an agent at work, it is not reportable.

So is contact urticaria reportable?
Chris
Frank Hallett  
#4 Posted : 01 October 2013 15:56:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

I haven't got into reading the new edition of RIDDOR thoroughly yet, but I have identified that there is a new requirement that almost matches the CS Specified Risk of hypothermia - although it's only reportable if it occurs in an "enclosed space" rather than a Confined Space as defined by the CS Regs.

Wouldn't it be nice if new terminology was explained, or better still, matched existing terminology?

Frank Hallett
Malcolm Fryer  
#5 Posted : 01 October 2013 20:05:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Malcolm Fryer

There are plenty of changes in RIDDOR 2013 most of which have been summarised by Barbour for SHP and e-mailed to many of us. However I think that many people have missed some important changes the text is below. I have used " " to highlight.

For example the famous back twinge is addressed.


What is “an accident”?
In relation to RIDDOR, an accident is a "discrete, identifiable", unintended incident which causes physical injury. This specifically includes acts of non-consensual violence to people at work.
Injuries themselves, eg “feeling a sharp twinge,” are not accidents. There must be an identifiable event, external to the body which causes the injury, eg being struck by a falling object. Cumulative exposures to hazards which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting) are not classed as “accidents” under RIDDOR.
What is meant by “work-related”?
RIDDOR only requires accidents to be reported if they arise out of or in connection with work. "The fact that an accident occurs at work premises does not, of itself, mean that the accident is work-related" -there must be some indication that the work activity contributed to the circumstances of the accident. An accident should be considered as “work-related” if any of the following factors played a significant role:
• the way the work was carried out;

• any machinery, other plant, substances or equipment used for the work; or

• the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened.
Malcolm Fryer  
#6 Posted : 01 October 2013 20:13:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Malcolm Fryer

I have looked at the post from AlanD76 and can see that the wording on the HSE site
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pr...icity&cr=01-Oct-2013 could be better and I paste it below


"It will not alter the current ways to report an incident at work. The principles of what must be recorded remain largely unchanged - everything that is reportable must also be recorded (other than gas events), together with over-3-day lost time accidents."
Malcolm Fryer  
#7 Posted : 01 October 2013 22:17:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Malcolm Fryer

I see the note from Frank who is very familiar and experienced in relation to confined spaces issues. I agree with him that this will probably lead to confusion. I advise that an Enclosed Space also has to reasonably foreseeably have one of the 5 associated specified risks in order to become a Confined Space.

Limited CS regulations extract below.
“confined space” means any place, including any chamber, tank, vat, silo, pit, trench, pipe, sewer, flue, well or other similar space in which, by virtue of its enclosed nature, there arises a reasonably foreseeable specified risk;

“specified risk” means a risk of—
(a)
serious injury to any person at work arising from a fire or explosion;
(b)
without prejudice to (a)—
(i)
the loss of consciousness of any person at work arising from an increase in body temperature;
(ii)
the loss of consciousness or asphyxiation of any person at work arising from gas, fume, vapour or the lack of oxygen;
(c)
the drowning of any person at work arising from an increase in the level of a liquid; or
(d)
the asphyxiation of any person at work arising from a free flowing solid or the inability to reach a respirable environment due to entrapment by a free flowing solid;

“free flowing solid” means any substance consisting of solid particles and which is of, or is capable of being in, a flowing or running consistency, and includes flour, grain, sugar, sand or other similar material;



redken  
#8 Posted : 02 October 2013 09:06:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

Bloggs and Frank, if you follow the HSE links you get to the reason for the use of the term enclosed space in relation to hypothermia:

"Any other injury arising from working in an enclosed space

Which:
leads to hypothermia or heat-induced illness or
requires resuscitation or admittance to hospital for more than 24 hours

An enclosed space includes any space wholly or partly enclosed, to the extent that there is a significantly increased risk to the health and safety of a person in that space by virtue of its enclosed nature. This includes any confined space as defined by the Confined Spaces Regulations 1997, and additionally similar spaces where there is a foreseeable risk of hypothermia (eg a cold store).

NB: Hypothermia is not a specified risk in the Confined Spaces Regulations.
djupnorth  
#9 Posted : 02 October 2013 13:43:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
djupnorth

I agree that it is not a clear as it might be. However, my interpretation of David's comment is that although reports only need to be made for 7 day incident, any injury resulting in more than 3 days absence will need to be recorded as such (and I presume available to a HMI on demand).

I hope this helps.

DJ
Steve e ashton  
#10 Posted : 02 October 2013 16:16:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

All the above confusion plus... HSE do not help themselves by issuing guidance (INDG453 (rev1) (draft) which states that:

"Reportable injuries (including deaths) do not have to be automatically reported....."

ermmmm surely if its reportable - then it needs to be reported? Isn't that part of the definition??? It kinda means what it says on the tin doesn't it??

Oh wait... there's more : "but must be reported if they occur as the result of a work-related accident..."
???? But surely to murgatroyd - if it doesn't occur as the result of a work related accident then its not a reportable accident - so its not reportable???

My head hurts!
chris42  
#11 Posted : 02 October 2013 16:29:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

I've just had to Google "murgatroyd" as it was getting to me.

The answer

Snagglepuss

Other search engines are available
Malcolm Fryer  
#12 Posted : 02 October 2013 17:31:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Malcolm Fryer

Chris 42

Wikepedia may be of interest to you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murgatroyd

But possibly not to the rest of the contributors on this thread
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