IOSH forums home
»
Our public forums
»
OSH discussion forum
»
Delivering risk assessments results, training and compentency - Mgt Reg 10 and 13
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi all,
I'm looking for some inspiration.
When I joined my company I inherited a risk assessment database and the accompanying training process. At the moment the completed risk assessments are handed to staff, they are then expected to read them and then appointed ‘trainers’ provide practical training/assessment on the tasks.
Although it meets the relevant legal standards it is cumbersome to use and implement, and it doesn’t ensure ownership of the process by the relevant managers.
I want to change the process to ensure a greater level of ownership and a more streamlined approach to delivering the results of risk assessments to staff.
I’m wondering how others deliver this and if possible, see a few examples of risk assessment training docs?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Good morning B Bruce
You've found yourself in a fairly common situation.
To save on repetition, may I suggest that you could have a trawl through recent [since last Wed] posts that address differing aspects of your question.
What a shame that L21 ACoP & HSG65 no longer exist in their previous format - most of your questions would be fairly well answered from those 2 documents - especially the need for managers to be directly involved in the oversight of RA production and implementation.
The practice of handing out the full RA is, in itself, generally not helpful as those receiving it have to interpret & understand it - without suitable competent input, that will generally not meet the MHSW requirement. Except for RAs for comparatively simple tasks I would propose providing an extract of the RA that focuses on the remedial measures and how to use them - a SSW in essence!
Additional questions that you may wish to consider:-
Who identifies and appoints the trainers? Who ensures that they are actually competent in the topic and as trainers? Who designs the training sessions? Who determines the level of training necessary to be considered competent as a trainer and as a post-trainee?
Frank Hallett
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
B.Bruce wrote:completed risk assessments are handed to staff, they are then expected to read them
"expected to read them" does not address the requirements of Regulation 10.
Employees do not necessarily need to see risk assessments at all. The risk assessment is the employer's tool to ensure compliance with relevant statutory provisions.
Employees require appropriate comprehensible information, instruction, training and appropriate supervision
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Ron, I didn't mean expected. My bad.
To ensure employees have understood the contents of the risk assessments (hazards and controls) competency based training/assessment takes place and employees sign off a training record, along with the competent 'trainer'.
As for your second point. I totally agree. Maybe I didnt explain this clearly enough in my original posting. It is this very aspect that I am trying to change.
So, if you dont mind me asking Ron, how have you trained/delivered this in the past?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
I haven't. I wouldn't deliver "risk assessment training" other than to those expected to actually conduct Risk Assessments. The task of assessment and the task of employee training are associated but not necessarily directly so.
Employees are provided with information and instruction and training on the safe system of work for the range of tasks and activities they undertake - as HASAWA and Reg10 of MHSWR requires. This will include a consideration of the hazards, awareness of the risk to safety and health and the safe system, method etc. of work to be adopted. The content, resources, method of delivery etc. are entirely task/activity dependent.
Competency/Safety training can be accomplished without the employee ever seeing the R/As associated with the work. Employees do not need to directly "understand the contents of risk assessments".
There is no requirement for employees to sign-off a "training record", other than to record their attendance. If competency needs to be formally evaluated via training then the trainer will sign-off for individual competency.
The other side of this coin of course being that to sign-off the R/A as suitable and sufficient, the Assessor has to be satisfied that suitable arrangements are in place to design, review, deliver and monitor compliance with the necessary information, instruction and training forming part of the controls to reduce that risk.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Ron, again, thanks for the reply.
All very informative, correct and helpful but not really what I am looking for.
Your well written reply describes my problem in detail. We have in the past provided the employees with the risk assessments themselves which isn't very helpful. What I am more interested in the method of training and provision of information that others use - in essence the training model and associated examples of blank documents.
Its a pity you don't have any real-world examples you can share here as you seem to be very knowledgeable?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
B.Bruce wrote: What I am more interested in the method of training and provision of information that others use - in essence the training model and associated examples of blank documents.
I'm confuddled. You seem still to allude to some sort of generic approach, whereas we seem to have agreement that training (or information and instruction) is something very much tailored to the task, the people and the desired outcomes. Manual handling, as a common issue in waste management and maybe a typical example, would require a fair investment in train-the-trainer skills should you want to deliver this in-house?
Training in sharps procedures and information about recognition of drug paraphernalia for those litter picking in the urban environment something requiring a different approach and a degree of specialist knowledge.
What is it you seek?
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Be confuddled no longer........
Risk assessments will be completed and the results of these will need to be communicated to employees in some way.
Although I’m a little wet behind the ears (so to speak) I do understand that the risk assessment itself shouldn’t (in most circumstances) be simply communicated to employees – it is merely the results of these assessments which should be communicated. Hence, why I am changing our procedures prior to reviewing our existing risk assessments.
The training will be very much specific to the risk assessment, which is itself specific to the organisation - this I do fully appreciate and understand.
Therefore, what I am looking for are ideas and examples of how other colleagues have presented this information in a readable, user friendly format in order to help them meet the requirements of legislation.....i.e. provision of information and instruction.
So, if there is anyone out there who would care to help or provide advice I'd really appreciate it.
Many thanks
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Simple pictures and clear photos are incredibly useful for the training and as reference points for continued reference in the interests of conformity to the standard required.
Frank Hallett
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
The "result" of a risk assessment is IMO simply the answer to the question (of the employer) "Am I doing enough (to eliminate or reduce risk) or need I do more".
In many instances the employer will be content. Where he determines that something more needs to be done then it's usual to take a plan of action to an employee consultation forum.
I confess to continued befuddlement here.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I agree with Frank on pictures as a form of format
I would carry out a small survey to find out what your organisations knowledge is on risk assessment, from this you can tailor your training objectives.
For example I have some employees that don't understand risk assessment, my objective is to help them understand that risk assessment in our organisation is not to burden them with paperwork and trivial hazards. The session will be limited to 45mins in the training room, the real work will be done at the workplace in developing worthwhile control measures that are managed.
It's a constant effort, half the battle is a format that suits the business and that the control measures actually mean something in helping to ensure no one is harmed.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Thanks mudmuppet and Frank - good suggestions. When I begin the review (starting with Production Dept) I will see if we can incorporate them.
Ron - I do not see how you can be confused. Its a simple enough posting. I am actually confused by your responses. But at least your continued confusion has helped keep it near the top of the forum for a while. Thanks.
If anyone else has any suggestions I would be glad to hear of them. I feel its always helpful to have helpful hints and tips from my fellow colleagues.
Thanks again everyone who has read and contributed.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
B.Bruce, do you not articulate the findings (control measures) via safe systems of work, briefings, safe operating procedures and the like? Pictorial versions all the better!
Think of the flight safety leaflet on a plane. The risk assessment would confuddle, a pictorial leaflet is easy to interpret by the masses and therefore much more useful.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
SP900308 wrote:B.Bruce, do you not articulate the findings (control measures) via safe systems of work, briefings, safe operating procedures and the like? Pictorial versions all the better!
Think of the flight safety leaflet on a plane. The risk assessment would confuddle, a pictorial leaflet is easy to interpret by the masses and therefore much more useful.
Hi SP
We don't at the moment. I've inherited a complicated system which to be frank is fit for the bin! In the past we have delivered the risk assessments which, as you quite rightly point out, is confusing, time consuming and pretty worthless as employees don't read them.
I'm considering a few options at the moment such as SSoW/SOP's backed up with regular toolbox talks. I like the idea of using pictures to illustrate some of the stages/tasks but this in itself might be confusing in some of our departments. I do like the idea though.
I think I'm suffering from the good old 'can't see the wood for the trees' problem. Too much to do, not enought time and don't know where to begin.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Just not clear on whether you want to:
>brief employees on the employer's approach to carrying out risk assessments, or
> train employees in safe systems of work for a variety or tasks, or
> both of the above.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
I want to change the process to ensure a greater level of ownership and a more streamlined approach to delivering the results of risk assessments to staff.
I’m wondering how others deliver this and if possible, see a few examples of risk assessment training docs?
our RAs are specific to individual machines ,never see the light of day and are of little or no use to the average operative. my approach has been to use simple pictorial sop attached to each machine.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
BB, if you are thinking of using your ra's to help you identify training needs and formulate ssow and tbt's then I think you are on the right track.
As an example, you might want to look at manual handling.
The ra you conduct says to you that there is a potential of injury if the load is lifted incorrectly. The employee never needs to see the ra.
As a result you determine the people involved need to be trained in the correct way to lift the load and you decide that the best way to do this is via a tbt. So, you put together a lovely little tbt complete with pictures of how to lift the load and possibly also how not to lift it. You also formulate a ssow that tells them exactly how they are to do it. Job done.
On the other hand, it is also important that some employees such as mobile engineers and machinery operators can and do conduct site based ra's before they begin work. This can be facilitated by having them fill in a yes/no/na type form, e.g. "Is it safe to carry out the task without....." If no then do not begin work.
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
If equipment or processes are complex then the RA can be complex or long, and I agree, this is not an RA that you present to employees as their training.
As suggested above training in complex tasks is made much easier when accompanied by a pictorial Safe Operating Procedure. My main custsomer has done this for years, long before they got me doing their RA review.
I can't share one of their excellent SOPs but they are prepared on an excel worksheet, this allows printing pages with text in one column, photos other column. The purpose of PPE and other controls can be explained while explaining the process, photograph all the stages, and laminated copies can be placed near the tool/process.
B.Bruce, don't get roped into doing all these SOPs yourself. Get supervisors and operators involved. That might be a problem - takes time. This may upset supervisor or his manager, but offer as much help as you can, get involved with the jobs, offer to do the more tedious tasks e.g. with camera, jpeg editing, preparing the excel SOP. With this sort of involvement you really get to know supervisors and operators and hopefully the team effort gets results!
My main customer has successfully got supervisors and operators preparing these SOPs for years, but I've got involved with new SOPs, most recently with LOTO procedures which now allow operators to do some tool/guard cleaning which used to be done by maintenance personnel.
JohnW
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Hi Carl/John,
Thanks for the replies.
I'm planning the 'model' as we speak. So far..........
- Identify Line Managers/Supervisors capable of assisting/completing with Risk Assessments/SOP's
- Complete review of Risk Assessments with these employees (and those directly involved with the task/equipment)
- Implement a programme to address the corrective actions
- Develop TBT's to provide employees with information and training on specific hazards and controls. Completed weekly (although will be daily initially until all TBT's have been trained to staff for first time). Records of training will be kept.
- SOP are currently being developed by Production however, they began the process without involving me. Thankfully its only at the beginning stages so any amendments/additions can be impletmented relatively easily.
- Each Production Cell will have SOP's at the location to allow easy access to staff. SOPs will also be trained/communicated to staff (along with any changes).
This should address Reg 10 and 13.
Have I missed anything?
Barry
|
|
|
|
Rank: Forum user
|
Barry, looks like a plan. Don't forget to involve the senior management as they are the ones who can help others see the need to help you if you know what I mean. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
IOSH forums home
»
Our public forums
»
OSH discussion forum
»
Delivering risk assessments results, training and compentency - Mgt Reg 10 and 13
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.