I say no, but your staff should receive appropriate training in order to avoid inappropriate mixing of some common domestic products and instruction from the employer to follow the instructions on the label/packaging.

Even in a work scenario where COSHH is applicable, the outcome can often be "follow the instruction on the label."

An assessments needs to be made, imagine what could happen if your employee were to use two different chemical in the cleaning process that react badly with each other.

For instance, if your cleaner were to use Bleach, then used another cleaner which contained ammonia, you will get chlorine gas!, not a good idea!

The cleaner is at WORK, no grey area here. Treat the process and the person as if they are on your premises.

Regards

Hi there all,

If its part of their job to be expected to use whatever cleaning products the clients have then surely carrying out COSHH assessments for them all is an impossible task . . . there must be thousands on the market.

I'm not in this area, so these are only thoughts but wouldn't a couple of assessments of product 'types' be better, i.e. if using bleach then.... if using an polish aerosol..... etc

As for the comments re mixing bleach and ammonia, and it exploding in sunlight - I'm not a chemist and this well may be theoretically true but these products are used by millions each day, if it was a real risk that they could mix and explode then surely the evening news wouldn't have time for any other story than the hundreds of people each day been being blown apart whilst cleaning their homes....

just my thoughts :-)

I have to agree with JJP. Let's get real!

How can anyone consider a COSHH assessment for each place that the worker will visit, as you have no idea what the actual environment will be like? Are we proposing that each location is visited and risk assessed before the worker is allowed to enter?

The only sensible way to approach this is to provide suitable training so that each worker has a good understanding of how to carry out the tasks that will be expected of them and what precautions they should take, particularly if they encounter an environment that they consider presents them with a hazard not covered by their training and generic procedures.

With regard to mixing bleach and detergent, particularly at normal 'consumer product strength', what happens is that bleach and detergent can react and generate chlorine gas. That is why on the bottle of bleach it will usually state: Do not use/mix with any other household cleanser. This problem can arise with commercial strength products but given the lower concentration of the domestic products, the time taken for the reaction to develop and the short time that the mixture is usually present the risk is relatively small and easily covered in the training.

Chris

Many years ago I worked in social services which included home care.

As per other posts - I would advise to focus on the training aspects and general precautions rather than worrying about documenting a COSHH assessment

I don't think it ever left a proportionate and pragmatic approach.

Someone asked if COSHH applied, the general consensus is that yes it does. A couple of people (including me) noted that toilet cleaners can do bad things chemically if used inappropriately.

I don't see any proposals or suggestions to do anything disproportionate - no-one in the thread advocates anything that is not pragmatic. Apparently, however, some people do see just that - could anyone identify what was disproportionate? What proposal or suggestion has been made that brings H&S into disrepute?

Having investigated an incident in similar circumstances where drain cleaner caused serious facial injuries, my advice will be very straight forward, as was my original intention.

Can those stating that there is over the top advice and that there is scaremongering take a step back. There is all sorts of weird and wonderful things us humans do in our homes and weird and wonderful products. As already alluded to, some chemicals mixed can cause catastrophic end results.

Regulation 6 of the CoSHH regulations clearly state "an assessment of the risk created by that work to the health and those employees" and then go on as to what the assessment should include (I wont bore all the professionals with listing these). The employer is also required to provide this information and train those employed.

I cannot understand those prescribing training on its own as this simply is not suffice! If you wanted to be clear as to what products can be used then an 'approved list should be issued'. CoSHH Assessments will have first aid measures to be implemented if they are indepth. Would it not be sensible to have this information should be with the end user?

In summary:

CoSHH Assessment & Training should be detailed and provided.

jarsmith

I think you may have misread the original post. You say "an 'approved list should be issued'" - by whom and to whom? We are talking of a domestic house.

The householder will not only use items from an apptroved list, they will buy whatever is on special offer at the supermarket.

Sorry, I have to agree with others that a full COSHH assessment is not practicable in a domestic situation. Training to ensure staff "read the instructions on the bottle" is really the only way forward.

No I am not comparing the same task here I am making a comparison and there is a vary of toilet cleaning products not to mention domestic tenants who use weird and mysterious containers claiming it contains various products.

Unsure to the disagreement with your post as you have clearly agreed - CoSHH Assessment required.

Agree - Its quite clear. Tasks require Risk Assessment. I am totally baffled as to the argument against?

Jarsmith

My point is the scarmongering/overboard reaction posted by members who I would assume have received training and know how to complete a CoSHH assessment. Who should know better!!

I fully accept its a work situation in a domestic setting, so technically a CoSHH assessment is required, no issue with that - all be it a very simple one. With the obvious generic conclusion that the instructions on the container should be followed / wear domestic grade Marigold gloves etc.

Yes in extremes / careless use / disregard for basic chemical safety then cleaning products can react in the right circumstances.

To me its the careless use of language/ jumping to conclusions and using emotive words like 'detonation', chlorine etc

None of this will happen, if the CoSHH assessment is undertaken and the instructions on the container are followed.

If so called safety professionals react in this way - then what chance the general public. Hence, why I despair when I see such threads on this forum.

Its unprofessional and technically/scientifically wrong if the product is used properly, to say it will detonate (in this example).

Make the assessment and arrive at valid and pragmatic conclusions, prior to bursting into emotive words

Our organisation employs a lot of staff within the social care industry; to conduct individual COSHH RA for every situation with every product used would be nearly impossible.

How we overcame this problem and to be COSHH compliant we;
Obtain material safety data sheets (MSDS) for common household products used in the home, we collated lots of MSDS for these products from suppliers, for example bleach from (Asda, domesdos, harpic Morrison’s etc) and looked at the common tasks that bleach would be used for, we then completed a COSHH risk assessments for the use of bleach, irrespective of manufacture, we concluded that bleach was bleach and the risk phrases and safety phrases were the same from each supplier, so… the control measures would be the same when using bleach.

We have about 48 general COSHH risk assessments available on our intranet site for managers to uses and implement, these can be amended by them if required.

I know some people may suggest that you cannot have generic COSHH risk assessments; however, these are common products that we all use in our own homes every day.

When a member of staff got bleach into their eye whilst cleaning a WC belonging to a supported person, the regulatory body requested to see the written COSHH risk assessment of which we had, they were happy with the assessment and the way in which it was communicated with the IP.

I guess most people here have agreed that the OP needs a COSHH RA, this is how we have managed our staff using substances in the community.

Note: I hope that I have not infringed the rules here by naming products and suppliers in this post; they have been used in the context in putting my point across. Apologies in advanced if I have.

First off, I would add is that risk assessments need to be suitable and sufficient.

Second off, if I remember right, CoSHH covers 5 main things and one is anything with a hazard warning label on it (other 4 being anything on EH 40, dusts, bio agents [being used at work] and anything else that could be harmful not covered by the other 4 categories).

I go with JJPrendergast (#7,#22), and suitable and sufficient - i.e. Gloves, read the label, don't mix etc.

Most cleaning agents will have varying proportions of most of the same sorts of chemicals too, so a generic one, for the task as toe says (#24) should also do the trick.

The issue is one of control- if you employ cleaners etc in people’s homes then they should use the employer’s cleaning products not the clients. The cleaning process would need to be assessed but that should not be too onerous a job –something on the lines of following the manufactures’ instructions and not mixing different products together.
I would be nervous about allowing my staff to handle something from someone else’s house. People have been known to transfer stuff between containers and make up their own brews.

I am flabbergasted this post is stil ongoing. I don't think Kurdziel was alluding to that at all. Would it not be sensible for the workers to have some basic provisions to clean? It's not rocket science after all :-)