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leerob  
#1 Posted : 15 October 2013 10:34:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
leerob

1. Is there a time scale that would dictate if traffic management measures are required for a lift. As the sub-contractor is arguing that they are only on site for a short time. However even straight forward lifts can take a couple of hours.

2. Would operatives require a valid Streetworks ticket for deliveries to site as they are on the public highway.

3. What are the issues associated with them extending their outriggers across a public footpath and effectively blocking the footpath.

4. Should they be providing a banksman.

5. Should their vehicles comply with chapter 8 requirements.

JohnW  
#2 Posted : 15 October 2013 11:03:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Lee, I audit some streetwork operations so I'll try and advise best I can here, with my opinion.

I have these discussions all the time with gangs who are digging, paving or tarmacing etc. We decide if the work is 'mobile' or 'temporary'.

For 'mobile' work I always compare the job time to that of refuse collectors, we're talking minutes as the time that a vehicle is stationary, so a grabber dropping a load of soil is mobile, but a grabber removing a lamp-post column, well, that will take longer as there is time needed to free it from the ground etc so tat is 'temporary' work.

Digging a hole or laying a patch of tarmac, that will clearly take more than minutes, so not 'mobile', but 'temporary'

So, those jobs taking longer are 'temporary' and some traffic management is required. I would expect to define your lift job as 'temporary'. How much traffic management depends on the width of the footpath/pavement and the width of the road, but there will be a requirement at least for barriers that provide a safety zone around the vehicles. Usually this is 1 metre, your lift job needs wider dafety zone if parts of the equipment reach/extend further?

If barriers encroach onto the road then pedestrians need a temporary barriered footpath extending around the safety zone, or put signs on approach (footpath closed) which will encourage them to cross the road.

If the barriers encroach on the road, need traffic arrows on the road. If one direction of traffic is completely blocked then need men with stop/go signs (traffic lights shouldn't be required for your short-term job).

At least the gang supervisor should have Streetworks. A banksman is required when manoeavring the vehicle. The vehicle should have conspicuos marking e.g chevrons.

Top of my head that, not fully visualising your job.

JohnW
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 15 October 2013 11:06:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

One area I'm not clear on is whether you need a council permit to block one direction of traffic and use stop/go signs/men.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 15 October 2013 11:28:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Reading between the lines - is this a construction site adjacent to a public highway and footpath with restricted footprint/access necessitating deliveries across the footpath?

Easy to say I know, but this should have been recognised at planning stage and appropriate enquiry made of the local authority as required.

That said, there are numerous big name companies making similar HIAB deliveries across the UK to private households hundreds of times every week.

I'm not expert on Chapter 8 and NRSWA, but I understood that only applies to certain prescribed work.
Irrespective of that, CDM Regulation duties will apply.
alexmccreadie13  
#5 Posted : 15 October 2013 11:35:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
alexmccreadie13

Lee

It is very simple contact the local council traffic licensing department and they will tell you what is required.

You are using the term they but that crane becomes part of the site so therefore it is everyone,s responsibility PC ,Sub Contractor if a Contract lift the Crane Company. If it is a CPA hire the crane Operator is under the site control.

You need to speak to the council and involve a Traffic Management company to ensure the correct licensing for a road closure partial or otherwise and footpath closure is put in place.

As Ron says this should have been planned at a much earlier stage.

Ta Alex
edwardh  
#6 Posted : 15 October 2013 13:06:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
edwardh

Technically this is neither Streetworks nor Roadworks as you are not working on equipment installed in the road nor working on the structure of the road itself.

As you are not a "statutory undertaker", you are not allowed to obstruct the road or footway without the permission of the highway authority (usually the County or Borough Council). So as Alex says contact the council and follow their requirements.
CarlT  
#7 Posted : 15 October 2013 14:38:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CarlT

Totally agree with Alex and edwardh, if you need to block off traffic or footpaths you have to have a permit. In the industry I was in customers would set up truck mounted mewps across footpaths and block off roadways at fairly frequent intervals and get away with it but imagine a pedestrian is forced to walk around a closed footpath and gets hit by a car....or another vehicle collides with the rear of the crane that is not displaying the correct signs and cones... or a collision because a driver was passing the crane blocking the lane and collided with an oncoming vehicle.
gramsay  
#8 Posted : 15 October 2013 15:25:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

edwardh has it, both regarding (no) need for SWQR-registered personnel and in contacting the LA.

Only thing I'd add is that if this is a situation you often find yourself in, pointing people in the direction of a Sector Scheme 12D training course may help. This is the scheme covering temporary traffic management on all but high-speed roads and while it's only a quality management system, the training that it mandates is a good way to ensure people (should) know what they're doing.

T1 is the course covering TM for moving / mobile works (such as grass cutting, gully cleaning or the soil delivery described by JohnW).

T2 covers all other non-complicated temp TM (such as stop/go, safety zones and pedestrian routes for a crane operating on a roadside in a more than extremely short duration way.)

T7 is the ticket for people planning TM but unless this is something you're directly involved with it's not relevant that you have this - more that your contractors are competent, and T1/T2 is a good start for that.

Hope that helps, good luck
RP  
#9 Posted : 15 October 2013 21:09:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RP

'Only thing I'd add is that if this is a situation you often find yourself in, pointing people in the direction of a Sector Scheme 12D training course may help. This is the scheme covering temporary traffic management on all but high-speed roads and while it's only a quality management system, the training that it mandates is a good way to ensure people (should) know what they're doing.'

Careful with this one above, Sector Scheme 12 is a contract requirement for Quality Assurance Purposes between the client and contractor, typically applying to trunk roads and optional for county roads.

Rather than beat about the bush, as stated above contact the highway authority, if needed use a competent traffic management company, will cost you but at least you get the job done safely...

Highways Act and Traffic Management Act for reference, ignore the Streetworks Act on this one...

gramsay  
#10 Posted : 15 October 2013 21:49:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

Hi RP,

I probably wasn't clear enough: when I mentioned "while it's only a quality management system, the training that it mandates is a good way to ensure people (should) know what they're doing", the point I was trying to emphasise was:

The OP's confusion is typical of many who infrequently come into contact with traffic management. Streetworks isn't the answer, decent (even basic) TM training is, and at the moment (I could be wrong of course!) 12D is the best bet, even if you've no contractual need for full sector scheme accreditation. Almost all my work is on low speed urban or rural non-trunk roads, which is exactly what 12D is aimed at (A/B and C are the ones focused on high-speed / trunk). We train all our guys to T1 and/or T2 as a minimum but have no plans to become accredited under our 9001 registration.

His best bet is absolutely contacting the LA, indeed as others have suggested - I was giving some additional ideas for how to check the competency of his contractors which was what the post was sort of about.

It's a funny world when the best route for training is via a QA scheme which you don't actually need the QA part of, but that's how it appears. If clients (especially LA ones) insisted on 12D for LA roads it would be revolutionary, but I can't see that happening in austerity-world. Which is why you end up with driving past endless sites which don't even approach the standards set out in the red book / Chapter 8 etc...

Hope that's a bit clearer!
JohnW  
#11 Posted : 16 October 2013 11:51:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

gramsay wrote:


The OP's confusion is typical of many who infrequently come into contact with traffic management. Streetworks isn't the answer, decent (even basic) TM training is.


And the OP confused me into talking about one of my areas utilities/streetworks :o)

I found the explanations about other TM training useful to know.

Hope we hear back from the OP.

JohnW
leerob  
#12 Posted : 22 October 2013 14:20:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
leerob

Some very useful information thank you all, Chapter 8 in its explanations is not as black and white as you would imagine.
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