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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 16 October 2013 17:15:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

I have stayed in a couple of hotels recently (in the UK)with very odd fire escape routes in that they went from public areas - corridoor / hallway INTO a guest bedroom and then to an external fire esacape. What are your views on this, and is it an accepted means of exit / escape? Ta.
Burns33145  
#2 Posted : 16 October 2013 18:52:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Burns33145

My expectation of a fire escape route is something that leads to a place of safety, is signed and has unrestricted access though doorways and stairwells to that place of safety. If the guest room has a door the guest can lock thus blocking the access to a place of safety then that fails to become a fire excape route, or do I have it wrong?
SBH  
#3 Posted : 16 October 2013 19:01:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Burns33145 is spot on. Here's Article 14 of the RRFSO: Emergency routes and exits 14. —(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times. (2) The following requirements must be complied with in respect of premises where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons— (a) emergency routes and exits must lead as directly as possible to a place of safety; (b) in the event of danger, it must be possible for persons to evacuate the premises as quickly and as safely as possible; (c) the number, distribution and dimensions of emergency routes and exits must be adequate having regard to the use, equipment and dimensions of the premises and the maximum number of persons who may be present there at any one time; (d) emergency doors must open in the direction of escape; (e) sliding or revolving doors must not be used for exits specifically intended as emergency exits; (f) emergency doors must not be so locked or fastened that they cannot be easily and immediately opened by any person who may require to use them in an emergency; (g) emergency routes and exits must be indicated by signs; and (h) emergency routes and exits requiring illumination must be provided with emergency lighting of adequate intensity in the case of failure of their normal lighting.
mssy  
#4 Posted : 16 October 2013 20:10:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

In the west end of London alone there are literally 100s of (often single staircase) buildings (some are hotels) that date back 120+ years, that use secondary means of escape routes that go up and over rooftops and to the street via next door! Indeed, many of the smaller shops around Oxford St are back to back with other buildings behind, so have to adopt a range of bizarre means of escape(MOEs). The FSO says the MOE must be suitable. Some cannot give 100% 'normal' escape routes via protected routes to their final exit, so some imagination and ingenuity is required. One Hotel I have seen in west London has an escape route onto a purpose built steel balcony and through an adjacent private flat's bathroom. Honestly, it is mad!!. The flat's bathroom has a sash window for normal use, but the whole window is hinged in a frame (outward opening) and usually maglocked closed. When the neighbouring hotel's AFD sounds, the maglock is released, and the bathroom's occupant notified by a buzzer, warning that hotel guests maybe entering her bathroom any time soon (and if necessary, to cover up with a towel!) This historic arrangement has been accepted by the fire service So if you are staying somewhere and the MOE looks iffy at best, report it to the local fire service. They will turn out within hours and check it out. (I have done it more than once!)
mssy  
#5 Posted : 16 October 2013 20:16:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

SBH wrote:
Burns33145 is spot on. Here's Article 14 of the RRFSO: Emergency routes and exits 14. —(1) WHERE NECESSARY in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times. (2) The following requirements must be complied with in respect of premises WHERE NECESSARY (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons—
Be careful of this list. It may not apply on every occasion, but only WHERE NECESSARY (my capitals). This means, subject to a FRA. For instance, doors do not have to open in the direction of travel, but they do WHERE NECESSARY. (usually if > than 60 persons may be required to use the door to evacuate, or where a rapid evacuation may be required - eg. a paint shop) There's a few of these 'where necessary's in the Order. So be careful when quoting FS provisions as 'you shall'(a requirement) as that's is rarely the case
AJG  
#6 Posted : 16 October 2013 21:00:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AJG

Good Topic, great answers. AJG , new member .
SBH  
#7 Posted : 16 October 2013 22:59:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Agree with mssy as I have often steered away from the FSO if required in the assessment. However I listed the order for information. I would always expect competent assessors to understand the order and where necessary use alternate solutions if the risk cannot be controlled via the usual means SBH
decimomal  
#8 Posted : 17 October 2013 07:48:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you for the responses. I wonder how these got past the Fire Certificate and Fire Officer visits in the past?
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 17 October 2013 10:51:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I recently stayed overnight in a Tudor Pub in the middle of a very small town near Kidderminster. We were shown the way to our room, over the public bar, through winding passages and creaky old staircases, then the manager told us she will show us the fire exit and led us through more winding passages and to the head of an external metal staircase that led directly onto a footpath then to safety. I thought she was very fire conscious and showing us the MOE due to her FRA responsibilities until she told us she was only showing us that way 'cos it was an easier way to get back in if we went out, to save us going through the pub.
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