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Safety Geek  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:14:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety Geek
Good morning everyone,

We currently have an issue with people using mobile phones on the stairs and not using the hand rails.

Does anyone know of anywhere where I can get some office safety posters and possibly a DVD on staircase safety.



Thanks

Barney#1
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safetyamateur  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:25:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur
We bypassed the whole training aspect of this and plumped for handsfree sets (much like a mouthorgan holder, sits around the neck). Works a treat
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kevkel  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:41:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel
I believe Victor Meldrew (forum user) provides a comprehensive training course on staircase safety.
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jay  
#4 Posted : 22 October 2013 11:48:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay
The use of hand held (and hands free) mobile phones, its "distraction" factor are real and very common occurences as most people ohave mobile phones. Add to that the good practice "requirement" to use handrails whilst using stairs that some organisations actively promote . It is not simple or easy.

We actively promote "No Walking & Talking" --and also using handrails . We use our behavioural safety observation process to provide feedback to personnel who do not follow our site practice. I have not come accross such a specific DVD, although there are several highlighting the hazards of distractions , i.e "walking & talking"
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flukey  
#5 Posted : 22 October 2013 13:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
flukey
I have to challenge and ask if sitting employees down to watch a stairway safety DVD (if indeed one exists and I'm hoping it doesnt) is really sending out the right message about what the safety profession is here to do and what 'risk' is. Our profession is in the spotlight and its only be managing significant risks in a proportional manner that we can add value into our respective organisations.
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achrn  
#6 Posted : 22 October 2013 14:41:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn
flukey wrote:
I have to challenge and ask if sitting employees down to watch a stairway safety DVD (if indeed one exists and I'm hoping it doesnt) is really sending out the right message about what the safety profession is here to do and what 'risk' is. Our profession is in the spotlight and its only be managing significant risks in a proportional manner that we can add value into our respective organisations.


I agree, but this issue comes up periodically and some people think that holding the handrail is really jolly important and it's worth having policies about and campaigns to promote.

Personally, I rarely touch the handrail going up stairs, but coming down I hold it all the way. On the other hand, I don't usually put my feet on the treads going down (maybe just one, about halfway).
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ptaylor14  
#7 Posted : 22 October 2013 15:19:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ptaylor14
Barney#1 wrote:
Good morning everyone,

We currently have an issue with people using mobile phones on the stairs and not using the hand rails.

Does anyone know of anywhere where I can get some office safety posters and possibly a DVD on staircase safety.



Thanks

Barney#1


Just get staff to use the lift
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jay  
#8 Posted : 22 October 2013 15:37:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay
I do not think that falling off a staircase is a trivial risk and if holding handrails is a reasonable mitigation, what is wrong in promoting its use in a constructive way?

There is reasonably decent HSE commisioned research with the title, "Falls on Stairways – Literature Review" highlighting that certain behaviours may influence the likelihood of experiencing a stairway fall

http://www.hse.gov.uk/re...hsl_pdf/2005/hsl0510.pdf

An extract from page 19, Chapter 6 ( Causes of Stairway falls) highlights that:-

"................The use of handrails whilst moving on stairs varies. Pauls (1985) reported use of handrails in
Canadian stairs research as varying between 40% and over 80% for persons within reach of the
handrail and for stairs having one of the following: long flights, steep slopes, distracting views,poor step visibility and crowded conditions. In the Edmonton Commonwealth Games study
(Rhodes et al, 1980 cited in Pauls, 1985), handrails were used by 55% of adults who made up
87% of the sample studied. Handrail technique in ascent commonly involves using a discrete
grip along with a pulling action. For descent, handrail use ranges from sliding or guiding to
discrete grips (Rhodes et al, 1980 cited in Pauls, 1985).............

Obviously there are other factors too.
Carrying items is commonly linked with falls on stairs. Nagata (1991) reported that 24% of victims were
carrying an object at the time of the fall. Carrying items decreases the chance of recovering
from a loss of balance because the hands are not free to grab onto a handrail. The item may be
bulky and obstruct the view of the stairway. The carriage of the item may also alter the balance
of the stairway user which may lead to a fall.

Accidents may occur due to undue haste or rushing. Authors in the stair research field have
commented that rushing when reporting for work or when leaving work is relatively common
(Cohen et al, 1985). This issue can potentially be tackled by employers with training and work
practice reinforcement.


We do it at our site because of its a part of an overall safety culture and our vision of nobody getting hurt akin to the aspirational goal of zero accidents.

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ExDeeps  
#9 Posted : 23 October 2013 08:22:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps
Quote; "Just get staff to use the lift"

Just as an observation, no criticism, this demonstrates that Health and Safety is one of those "damned if we do, damned if we don't" activities. I can just imagine some eminant cardiologist spilling his coffee on the desk as he idly surfs his way through the few minutes of peace and calm before going off to insert a stent or two in some under active, over weight office workers heart.....(yes, yes, broad brush strokes here, I know it's a simplistic picture I paint)

Obviously this is in reality unlikely as most cardiologists do not have time worth wasting riffing through the "elf 'n' safety chat rooms but you get my drift

Cheers,

Jim
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achrn  
#10 Posted : 23 October 2013 08:51:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn
jay wrote:
I do not think that falling off a staircase is a trivial risk and if holding handrails is a reasonable mitigation, what is wrong in promoting its use in a constructive way?


I do think falling off a staircase is a trivial risk. I have never heard of anyone falling off a staircase in any of our sites ever. Likelihood is negligible.

Falling down a staircase is a slightly higher likelihood, but severity is somewhat lower. We've had a few accident book entries falling or tripping on stairs in the 20-or-so years I've been involved with the accident stats. However, it's still well into the category of things that I don't consider it helpful to nag people about. Things like do up your shoelaces, don't walk forwards while looking backwards, don't eat random brightly-coloured berries, etc, etc, etc, are not within the remit of workplace health and safety policies, in my view - that's what mothers are for.
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flukey  
#11 Posted : 23 October 2013 09:11:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
flukey
There must be a demand for similar DVD's...I may launch may own range...The 'Pick Your Feet Up' Safety DVD (the level, good condition version), the 'Chew Your Food' DVD and the 'Put your coat on or you'll catch a cold' DVD.

Once released, they will be quickly followed by 'How not to enhance Health and Safety Perception in the Workplace' DVD.
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redken  
#12 Posted : 23 October 2013 09:22:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken
"in my view - that's what mothers are for."

Fathers and Grandparents are also available.
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jay  
#13 Posted : 23 October 2013 12:04:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay
The health & Safety percetion is likely to depend upon the stage/level of " Safety Maturity" a particular organisation is at. Normally, if it is at the highest level, it is unlikely that one will have to "nag" others. It is normally accepted in such organisations that such "positive" behaviours ."normal". Obviously, if an organisation is at a lower Safety Maturity Level, then it needs to act upon different aspects.

The adaptation and use of "Behavioural safety" as ONE (not to be used in isolation) potential tool to improve personal safety performance in some industry sectors is generally a challenge, ( e.g. Construction). That does not mean that encouraging safer behaviours is to nag/teach/ train others how to use the stairs or walk or to chew food.

"Safety culture maturity model" HSE Commissioned Reseach.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/re...otopdf/2000/oto00049.pdf

Measuring EHS Culture:
http://www.iosh.co.uk/pd...%20by%20Lynn%20Watts.pdf

Behaviour change and worker engagement practices within the construction sector
http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr660.pdf

Behaviour Change and Worker Engagement (BCWE) in the Construction Industry
http://www.hsl.gov.uk/me...ngagement_layout%201.pdf


http://www.hse.gov.uk/se...%20safety%20construction
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gramsay  
#14 Posted : 23 October 2013 12:56:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay
The Safety Maturity level of an organisation describes a lot of things related to to how engaged its members are and how effective the organisation can be at controlling risk. An insignificant risk does not necessarily become more significant just because the organisational culture matures, though.

I'm pretty much with achrn here. I've worked on sites with mandatory handrail-holding policies, and even battalions of time-wasters (see the e-fags thread for reference) armed with STOP cards to prevent the slightest deviation from staircase safety. Such policies were universally derided, leading to a marked lack of engagement with genuinely essential risk-reduction measures. I think this is the opposite of Safety Maturity.

The old Management Regs ACoP had it quite right:

"Once the risks are assessed
and taken into account, insignificant risks can usually be ignored,
as can risks arising from routine activities associated with life in
general, unless the work activity compounds or significantly alters
those risks."

Unless the employees are being pressured to take phone calls at inappropriate times, or there's something wrong with the stairs, should we really be getting involved?
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jay  
#15 Posted : 23 October 2013 14:36:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay
The difference between higher/highest safety level maturity organisations and others could be that the others simply want to do the "minimum" to comply with the law or a particular standards, whereas some of the highest/higher level safety maturity level organisations really want "nobody to get hurt" at all and aim towards an aspirational goal of zero accidents.

Unfortunately, the HSE , ever since since the time RIDDOR was reportable via ICC etc.does not diferentiate between staircase falls and other fall from height so we do not know, but there used to be sepoerate data previusly that I have included below.

I am minded to have a different view from other contributors regarding the level of risk from staircase falls and the holding handrails is ilkely to mitigatethat risk, after looking at the staircase fall data, primirily in the workplace, but also from the previous Home Accident Surveillance System (HASS) & Leisure Accident Surveillance System (LASS) data .

In the workplace:-
• In the year 2003-2004, a total of 7,144 injuries were reported to the GB Health and Safety Executive where the agent causing the injury is attributed to stairs/steps. This is out of 1,869 "major" and 5,275 "over 3 day" injuries
• This was 17% of all agents that caused slips, trips & falls (out of a grand total of 41,768).
• Slipping and tripping is the most common kind of accident causing a “major injury” to employees
• Slipping/tripping is the second most common kind of “over-3-day injury” to employees and accounted for almost one quarter of all over-3-day injuries in 2003/04).

At Home & Leisure in 2002:-
• Approximately 306,168 (11.3%) home injuries can be attributed to falls on/from stairs & steps
• Approximately 140,307 (4.4%) leisure injuries can be attributed to falls on/from stairs & steps
• Approximately 440,000 (4%) home & leisure injuries can be attributed to a construction feature( i.e the lack of) in stairs etc.

The source of this data is:-
• HSE year 2003 data on workplace slips, trips & falls resulting in major and over 3 day injuries where the agent causing the injury is attributed to stairs/steps

• One year's data for 2002 from the UK Home Accident Surveillance System (HASS) and Leisure Accident Surveillance System (LASS)
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achrn  
#16 Posted : 24 October 2013 09:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn
jay wrote:
The health & Safety percetion is likely to depend upon the stage/level of " Safety Maturity" a particular organisation is at. Normally, if it is at the highest level, it is unlikely that one will have to "nag" others. It is normally accepted in such organisations that such "positive" behaviours ."normal". Obviously, if an organisation is at a lower Safety Maturity Level, then it needs to act upon different aspects.


We've reached a pretty dismal place when 'safety maturity' prevents people running up stairs.

Running up stairs is FUN. It's GOOD to be alive. It's GOOD to enjoy and celebrate the abilities of your body, and to be grateful that you're not crippled by obesity or worse. I LIKE running up stairs. Insisting on holding the handrail and putting one foot on every tread carefully one-after-the-other is not a positive behaviour - it's depressing.

I pity anyone whose measure of 'safety maturity' hinges on everyone being boringly sensible every second of every day.
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safetyamateur  
#17 Posted : 24 October 2013 09:52:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur
achrn wrote:
jay wrote:
The health & Safety percetion is likely to depend upon the stage/level of " Safety Maturity" a particular organisation is at. Normally, if it is at the highest level, it is unlikely that one will have to "nag" others. It is normally accepted in such organisations that such "positive" behaviours ."normal". Obviously, if an organisation is at a lower Safety Maturity Level, then it needs to act upon different aspects.


We've reached a pretty dismal place when 'safety maturity' prevents people running up stairs.

Running up stairs is FUN. It's GOOD to be alive. It's GOOD to enjoy and celebrate the abilities of your body, and to be grateful that you're not crippled by obesity or worse. I LIKE running up stairs. Insisting on holding the handrail and putting one foot on every tread carefully one-after-the-other is not a positive behaviour - it's depressing.

I pity anyone whose measure of 'safety maturity' hinges on everyone being boringly sensible every second of every day.


OK, but we're still against running with scissors, right? Not sure I can take all this change at once.
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Safety Geek  
#18 Posted : 29 October 2013 16:04:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Safety Geek
Thank you for all of your replies.

Unfortuntely we have already had one event where the person invoved was significantly injured.

It would not be reasonable to ask everyone to use the lift as we have over 400 employees on side over three floors.

I cannot understand the response from some of the members on here, as safety practitioners we are there to assess risks and control them so far as is reasonably practicable.

The likelyhood of a fall is likely as a result of the number of times each staircase is used.

The serverity from a fall is significant injury such as bone fracture.

I would consider that there use of the staircases is medium/high.

Existing control measures are the stairs are maintained to a good standard and there are handrails in place and we advise personnel to use the lifts where possible.

We have a significant problem with people using phones, carrying equipment, files, drinks, etc.
on the stairs.
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walker  
#19 Posted : 29 October 2013 16:17:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker
IMHO anyone who walks around using a mobile phone (at any time) is just a self important prat.
Trip em up as they walk by and preferably stomp on their comfort blankets (phones).
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bob youel  
#20 Posted : 30 October 2013 07:21:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel
simply manage the area e.g. make managers stop people using mobiles for private business in company time and when moving around even on business - it can be done all U need is commitment and some guts
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Rees21880  
#21 Posted : 30 October 2013 09:37:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rees21880
I challenge anyone who thinks that falling on stairs is a trivial or negligible risk....ask a colleague of mine who unfortunately suffered a fractured skull when falling down seven stairs in an office block!

Root cause? Heel of one shoe caught in the trouser cuff of other leg causing them to lose their balance.

Mitigating factors of this particular incident? Haste and carrying one item (handbag on shoulder that was closest to handrail) thus preventing a quick reaction to grab the handrail that wasn't being used!!
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gramsay  
#22 Posted : 30 October 2013 12:45:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay
Rees21880 wrote:
I challenge anyone who thinks that falling on stairs is a trivial or negligible risk....ask a colleague of mine who unfortunately suffered a fractured skull when falling down seven stairs in an office block!

Root cause? Heel of one shoe caught in the trouser cuff of other leg causing them to lose their balance.

Mitigating factors of this particular incident? Haste and carrying one item (handbag on shoulder that was closest to handrail) thus preventing a quick reaction to grab the handrail that wasn't being used!!



Aye, but none of that arises from a work-produced hazard (unless there's something wrong with the stairs, someone's forcing her to rush, etc etc etc). Personally I'd hesitate over what appear to me to be naggingly nannyish policies, but even if I DID have time and budget I'd be addressing a whole lot of actually work-related issues first. She tripped over her own feet - it's a shame but it's exactly what the old management regs ACoP reminded us NOT to concentrate on.

Of course if there's an epidemic of people falling from staircases, or you've a large building with unusually congested access you may approach differently but for the vast majority of people is this really a good use of our time?

I don't mean to appear callous - as a colleague I'd be helpful and concerned but as someone involved in directing our limited resources in relation to the hazards we face this would not be on my agenda. That applies equally to controlling risk and improving our "safety culture".
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IanDakin  
#23 Posted : 30 October 2013 13:12:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin
Hi
I have had the following staircase accidents happen where I have worked in the past.
Fell and lost consciousness
Fell and injured spine
Stumbled down and put arm through plasterboard, on Christmas Eve, fracturing the arm
Slipped and fractured ankle

But, would training have altered this?

Doubt it, why not make it a policy, and get managers to enforce it and lead by example.

Ian
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Ron Hunter  
#24 Posted : 30 October 2013 13:37:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter
As a response to SafetyAmateur at #2 I offer this for your amusement:




I'm with Walker at #19.

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flukey  
#25 Posted : 30 October 2013 16:47:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
flukey
gramsay wrote:
Rees21880 wrote:
I challenge anyone who thinks that falling on stairs is a trivial or negligible risk....ask a colleague of mine who unfortunately suffered a fractured skull when falling down seven stairs in an office block!

Root cause? Heel of one shoe caught in the trouser cuff of other leg causing them to lose their balance.

Mitigating factors of this particular incident? Haste and carrying one item (handbag on shoulder that was closest to handrail) thus preventing a quick reaction to grab the handrail that wasn't being used!!



Aye, but none of that arises from a work-produced hazard (unless there's something wrong with the stairs, someone's forcing her to rush, etc etc etc). Personally I'd hesitate over what appear to me to be naggingly nannyish policies, but even if I DID have time and budget I'd be addressing a whole lot of actually work-related issues first. She tripped over her own feet - it's a shame but it's exactly what the old management regs ACoP reminded us NOT to concentrate on.

Of course if there's an epidemic of people falling from staircases, or you've a large building with unusually congested access you may approach differently but for the vast majority of people is this really a good use of our time?

I don't mean to appear callous - as a colleague I'd be helpful and concerned but as someone involved in directing our limited resources in relation to the hazards we face this would not be on my agenda. That applies equally to controlling risk and improving our "safety culture".


Absolutely agree gramsay. I'd also have to comment that the severity of the injury doesnt mean we automatically have to nanny people on what is a completely normal activity. Likelihood is the other measure to the risk and in my opinion that likelihood is 'very unlikely'.
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Gary Clarkson  
#26 Posted : 30 October 2013 19:26:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gary Clarkson
I look forward to the day when I have the time and energy to spend worrying about grown adults using stairs.


On second thoughts if it ever does come about, I think I will retire and become a traffic warden.
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Canopener  
#27 Posted : 31 October 2013 08:05:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener
The post at #21 poses an interesting 'take' on risk. Of course the end result (the injury) isn't the only factor that needs to be considered when assessing risk. Of course most of us have at some time fallen up or down stairs; most of the time we manage to scoop ourselves up, go bright red and get on with things. There will also be occasions where a significant (even fatal) injury occurs, and a range of other injuries in between.

It seems to me that you have to consider risk in the broader context of the likelihood and the LIKELY injury rather than the worst case (and the perception that it is definitely going to happen).

I've been climbing up and down stairs for the past 50 years or so; and I'm still here with most of my 'bits and pieces' intact, and certainly none lost through falling up and down stairs. (Having said that, I just know that I am going to fall on the stairs today and break my leg now!)

Overall, I am inclined to think that the vast majority of us must surely have far bigger fish to fry!
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Sinclair24063  
#28 Posted : 03 November 2013 20:37:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Sinclair24063
Come on for goodness sake can a little bit of common sense be applied here?
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mssy  
#29 Posted : 04 November 2013 02:04:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy
Gary Clarkson wrote:
I look forward to the day when I have the time and energy to spend worrying about grown adults using stairs.

On second thoughts if it ever does come about, I think I will retire and become a traffic warden.


Every so often on this site, there is a thread which confirms the Daily Mail's assumption that anyone working in elf & safety is a hi viz wearing pedant. I cannot believe any assessment would determine that it is necessary to gather staff together and show them a film about how to put one foot in front of another! As for the STOP cards? How ridiculous!

The only possible time (IMHO) it is worth mentioning moving safely on staircases would be if a work process requires an unusual use of stairs. Eg: regular carrying of heavy or bulky item, the use of an external staircase which may be subject to rain or ice, or perhaps evacuating in an emergency with lots of other evacuees.

Surely if we are to sell H&S to others, we have to do all we can to get them on board by ensuring we steer away from 'conkers bonkers' reactions to a single event.
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garryw1509  
#30 Posted : 04 November 2013 10:05:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
garryw1509
Achrn -
Things like do up your shoelaces, don't walk forwards while looking backwards, don't eat random brightly-coloured berries, etc, etc, etc, are not within the remit of workplace health and safety policies, in my view - that's what mothers are for.


Love it! And for me, this is the best quote i think i,ve ever read in this forum.







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peter gotch  
#31 Posted : 04 November 2013 12:58:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch
Non-sexist language!

...and fathers.
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achrn  
#32 Posted : 04 November 2013 21:12:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn
peter gotch wrote:
...and fathers.


Potentially, but in my family it's their mother that's more likely to worry about and consequently articulate such things. My risk tolerance for things like running backwards and climbing up buildings is higher than my wife's.
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Victor Meldrew  
#33 Posted : 06 November 2013 17:07:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew
kevkel wrote:
I believe Victor Meldrew (forum user) provides a comprehensive training course on staircase safety.


That's not fair kevkel........ after a few months I can at least see the funny side now..... just ;-)
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Victor Meldrew  
#34 Posted : 06 November 2013 17:09:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew
walker wrote:
IMHO anyone who walks around using a mobile phone (at any time) is just a self important prat.
Trip em up as they walk by and preferably stomp on their comfort blankets (phones).



Nice 1 - I prefer that method also.
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Victor Meldrew  
#35 Posted : 06 November 2013 17:12:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Victor Meldrew
Sinclair24063 wrote:
Come on for goodness sake can a little bit of common sense be applied here?



Nah, doubt it - how else are we going to get laughed at & ridiculed?
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