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pdurkin  
#1 Posted : 31 October 2013 10:17:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

The committee of our community centre where we have played short-mat bowls (SMB) for over 23 years now wants us to risk assess the activity. They state because we are in a more litigatious society !! I doubt this, but apart from insurance which we have, all I think,I could state is we play according to the SMB rules!! Are other community sport activities now faced with this type of request e.g. from Man.U. to the chess club? Should I resist or play ball? (bowls)
PH2  
#2 Posted : 31 October 2013 10:29:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

This is not related to health and safety at work, so no. PH2
safetyamateur  
#3 Posted : 31 October 2013 11:06:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

Hang on, PH2. That doesn't mean an organisation can't look at its risk. Wouldn't expect the activity to be risk assessed but you certainly want to look at the environment/facilities and risk assessment's a great tool for it.
JJ Prendergast  
#4 Posted : 31 October 2013 11:21:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

No wonder H&S gets a bad name. So glad I got out of occupational safety. Haven't the committee got anything better to do?
Citizen Smith  
#5 Posted : 31 October 2013 11:27:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Citizen Smith

While not a workplace activity, this is almost certainly driven by the insurance company. I've recently been asked to do some work for an athletics club. The club is run by volunteers so not a workplace but I've approached it as if it were, as they have many of the same issues e.g. they direct others activities, they employ contractors to undertake work on their behalf etc.. They own and run a clubhouse so fire risk assessment is required. I think it's sensible to look at risk in any organisation but to require a formal risk assessment for playing bowls seems over the top to me.
bob youel  
#6 Posted : 31 October 2013 11:43:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

If this is a group of people who are not at work and only use the site as a past time /recreation activity my advice, after looking after many public sports facilities for many years, is that if the committee wants it then they do it. Its right that an organisation knows about their own risk but they should manage the risk ID area themselves
Canopener  
#7 Posted : 31 October 2013 12:29:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I have some sympathy with both camps. I have to agree with Safetyam at #3, that this is not at work doesn’t mean that risks shouldn’t be considered, assessed or managed. There are any number of ‘none work’ situations where there may not be a statutory duty to carry out a risk assessment, yet nevertheless it would be prudent and responsible to do so. In many cases it would be entirely irresponsible not to. On the other hand, I can’t help but agree that an assessment for such a generally innocuous activity, where the risks are generally reasonably obvious, is unlikely to reveal anything terribly significant (happy to be wrong). On a more general note, when assessing sporting or similar activities, I always try to factor in the ‘social benefit’ of taking part in the activities, so that even where there are risks these are balanced against the benefit of participating. This is something that the HSE have previously alluded to in their ‘position statement’ on Managing risk in play provision.
JJ Prendergast  
#8 Posted : 31 October 2013 12:30:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Its the leisure activity that the assessment is required for by the committee. Where is the sense of proportion!! If anthing, it should be the committee telling the users of the building, what the risks are. In my sport - cricket - the winter practice gym we use (local school owned) have never asked for a RA and I wouldn't expect them to. However we have our own internal controls for different age groups, use of hard cricket ball etc
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 31 October 2013 13:00:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Follow good practice by involving those engaged in the activity, ask them to identify the hazards (i.e. what it is that arises that may cause harm) = errr.....................? Explain the meaning of 'volenti non fit injuria'. Job done.
RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 31 October 2013 15:39:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

If the RA was just for the act of playing bowls I would tell the committee to go forth...if, it was for other aspects of the sport ie facilities, emergency arrangements, etc, then fair enough. Sport - volenti non fit injuria applies.
pdurkin  
#11 Posted : 31 October 2013 15:58:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Grateful thanks Ron & Ray.'Volenti is a great use ref to boxing. I can remember first seeing its use regarding the Lewis bonfire street festival, it made our Hop festival seem tame, so great use thanks again !!
Ron Hunter  
#12 Posted : 31 October 2013 16:37:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Those with no luck at all may of course find after 23 years of playing that dead bowls and jacks have been thudding off an AIB wall at the end of the rink...................
Canopener  
#13 Posted : 01 November 2013 08:54:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

ron hunter wrote:
Those with no luck at all may of course find after 23 years of playing that dead bowls and jacks have been thudding off an AIB wall at the end of the rink...................
Fantastic. It's a thought though isn't it?
Canopener  
#14 Posted : 01 November 2013 09:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Actually I meant to add that I seem to recall a sports injury case where a rugby player was seriously injured, I believe rendered tetraplegic as the result of a collapsed scrum, and sued. I would assume that the defendant would have claimed 'volenti' but if I recall correctly the case was successful as it was decided that the referee had not taken suitable action to prevent repeated scrum collapses. Not sure if anybody knows any more of the case. Now back to that particularly dangerous past time of carpet bowls :-)
Steve e ashton  
#15 Posted : 01 November 2013 09:12:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Or - you could tell 'em you risk assessed it twenty years ago and have reviewed the assessment every six months since. The assessment is still valid, and there are no significant findings so you do not need to keep a record of anything. Paper chasers make me wanna jump down their throats.
Linda G  
#16 Posted : 01 November 2013 10:00:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Linda G

I have had a similar problem. Our staff always make an effort for children in need and this year they have announced that they are going to put on a schools sports day for staff to participate in. I’m in a bit of a quandary really as my boss is concerned that with unfit middle-aged staff partaking in sack, wheelbarrow and three legged races, we will end up with a few broken bones. He has asked me to carry out a risk assessment. The last thing I wish to do is say no and perpetrate the “elf & safety” gone mad scenario, however, I do feel that some broken bones, considering the age and fitness of some of the participants is reasonably foreseeable. Obviously this will not be a work activity, but it will be on our premises with the knowledge of management and in work time. I would be grateful for your opinion here as I really do not know how to approach this. My gut instinct is to say it is not a work activity, there is no need for a risk assessment and that we just need to get employees to sign a disclaimer in respect to partaking at their own risk. How would you approach this one? Thanks Linda
pdurkin  
#17 Posted : 01 November 2013 11:06:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Thanks all for entering in the spirit of my request. To answer Ron's point about AIB. the old 1990 hall had painted breeze block walls & the new rebuilt (2000) hall has modern materials !! However, young Ron should know that at the ends of each mat there are wooden fenders, to stop those ' wild woods'
paulw71  
#18 Posted : 01 November 2013 11:50:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paulw71

Linda G wrote:
I have had a similar problem. Our staff always make an effort for children in need and this year they have announced that they are going to put on a schools sports day for staff to participate in. I’m in a bit of a quandary really as my boss is concerned that with unfit middle-aged staff partaking in sack, wheelbarrow and three legged races, we will end up with a few broken bones. He has asked me to carry out a risk assessment. The last thing I wish to do is say no and perpetrate the “elf & safety” gone mad scenario, however, I do feel that some broken bones, considering the age and fitness of some of the participants is reasonably foreseeable. Obviously this will not be a work activity, but it will be on our premises with the knowledge of management and in work time. I would be grateful for your opinion here as I really do not know how to approach this. My gut instinct is to say it is not a work activity, there is no need for a risk assessment and that we just need to get employees to sign a disclaimer in respect to partaking at their own risk. How would you approach this one? Thanks Linda
I wouldnt event bother with the disclaimer to be honest. Its a fun event and if your staff do not want to take part they dont have to. Credit them with knowing their own physical capabilities. If the injury was due to a physical hazard that was present then I dont think as diclaimer would help you unless you warned them of it in advance. If the injury is just down to bad knees, worn joints, weight issues or general poor health then they should have the good sense not to take part. IMHO. Regards
Ron Hunter  
#19 Posted : 01 November 2013 11:57:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

pdurkin wrote:
Thanks all for entering in the spirit of my request. To answer Ron's point about AIB. the old 1990 hall had painted breeze block walls & the new rebuilt (2000) hall has modern materials !! However, young Ron should know that at the ends of each mat there are wooden fenders, to stop those ' wild woods'
Yes. I've since read up on the "short mat" game. I'd originally envisaged ad-hoc carpet bowling which often has nothing in the way of a rink or barrier.
Ron Hunter  
#20 Posted : 01 November 2013 12:01:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Linda G wrote:
I have had a similar problem. Our staff always make an effort for children in need and this year they have announced that they are going to put on a schools sports day for staff to participate in. I’m in a bit of a quandary really as my boss is concerned that with unfit middle-aged staff partaking in sack, wheelbarrow and three legged races, we will end up with a few broken bones. He has asked me to carry out a risk assessment. The last thing I wish to do is say no and perpetrate the “elf & safety” gone mad scenario, however, I do feel that some broken bones, considering the age and fitness of some of the participants is reasonably foreseeable. Obviously this will not be a work activity, but it will be on our premises with the knowledge of management and in work time. I would be grateful for your opinion here as I really do not know how to approach this. My gut instinct is to say it is not a work activity, there is no need for a risk assessment and that we just need to get employees to sign a disclaimer in respect to partaking at their own risk. How would you approach this one? Thanks Linda
Some cuation is required. I vaguely remember significant case law on this. Whereas the event was seen as a "non-work" event it was demonstrated and proven that employees were essentially coerced into participation by the employer - some sort of Team Building Event thingy. I don't recall the details, but I'm sure there was more than one, and one was an event overseas. i.e. all concerned have to be satisfied that this is a wholly voluntary activity.
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