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Ron Hunter  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2013 13:39:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Colleagues, In the space of a couple of weeks, I've been given 2 charger units (reputable names) which come in 2 parts (dismantled by hand, no tools required). The interchangeable "plug" part, when dismantled has two slightly recessed contacts diirectly accessible by everyday common metal objects (oh for a picture facility on this Forum) such as might be wielded by small inquisitive fingers. The risk of electric shock is readily apparent. The first picture at this link gives an idea of the problem, although I stress the components in my possession have slightly recessed contacts. http://www.esc.org.uk/in...ting-screening/chargers/ These things seem to be manifestly unsafe and contrary to any standard and principle of essential electrical safety requirements, but they're everywhere, and plastered with CE mark and every type-approval you could think of. Is anyone out there aware of recalls, investigations and authoritative determination regarding supply? I'm minded to do an internal recall within my Organisation, & that's going to result in a lot of dead appliances!
zeb  
#2 Posted : 08 November 2013 14:06:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
zeb

http://www.esc.org.uk/in...calls/recalled-products/ Two more clicks and you'd have hit the jackpot. Loads of chargers listed for recall.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 08 November 2013 16:42:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

No Jackpot I'm afraid. Nothing listed for recall as far as I can see with the specific problem of live contact with a detachable plug interface.
paul.skyrme  
#4 Posted : 08 November 2013 22:55:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Ron, It will be down to the detail design of the "plug" part & the charger interface. You would have to refer to the product standards. The plug unit should be marked to comply with BS1363 if it is to fit into a UK 13A socket outlet, as the CE mark is irrelevant when it comes to this requirement.
Graham Bullough  
#5 Posted : 09 November 2013 11:08:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

ron Though the chargers you mention have reputable names on them, it's quite possible that they are actually fake/counterfeit versions. According to consumer programmes on TV there is a major and increasing problem in the UK and elsewhere regarding dangerous fake copies of chargers for reputable makes of mobile phones, laptops and similar equipment. The fakes have packaging and labels which mimic those of genuine versions and sometimes also have CE markings. However, as they're badly made using inadequate materials and omit important safety features, their use can lead to fires and/or risk of serious electric shock. Trading standards officers from local authorities face an uphill battle in trying to identify and apprehend unsafe/dangerous items as they arrive in the UK or appear in shops and market stalls, etc. They have an even harder task regarding those who sell such items from private addresses by mail order. The overall problem is greatly exacerbated by the following aspects: The internet allows almost anything to be readily advertised to vast numbers of people nowadays. Too many people are accustomed to searching the internet for whatever items they want, believing without question what they read, and then ordering items advertised at what they regard as amazingly rather than suspiciously low prices. If something is being advertised for a price which is far lower than the average price charged by reputable makers and retailers, it could well be a dangerous fake. For those wanting more information there is plenty available on the internet including the following: http://www.watchmywallet...red-on-bbc-fake-britain/ http://www.dailymail.co....chargers-burn-house.html
Grizzly  
#6 Posted : 09 November 2013 21:08:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

paul.skyrme wrote:
Ron, The plug unit should be marked to comply with BS1363 if it is to fit into a UK 13A socket outlet, as the CE mark is irrelevant when it comes to this requirement.
I would doubt it. I think the type of charger/power supply that Ron is talking about is something akin to this: http://www.uk-mobilestor...-black-d__58184_zoom.jpg The '13A plug' part will not be marked as BS1363, as it does not (nor is intended to) fully comply with that standard. Just like any plug-in charger (aka 'wall-wart') does not comply with BS1363, even though designed to fit a 13A socket outlet. I believe the relevant standard is BS EN 60950.
Ron Hunter  
#7 Posted : 09 November 2013 22:34:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

That link from Grizzly is indeed typical of the kind of devices I'm concerned with - particularly the detachable "plug" part.
paul.skyrme  
#8 Posted : 10 November 2013 13:25:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

ron, I knew exactly the type you mean. I also stand by my statement about 1363 compliance for the "13A socket" interface. I'll bet you that any respectable manufacturer of "13A socket outlets" will have in their information that they are only suitable for use with devices that comply with 1363. If we are lucky we will have one along shortly who can confirm perhaps?... Thus is you utilise items that are not compliant then you could well be "non-compliant" yourselves. There is no reason that these parts cannot be made to meet the requirements of that standard, and they must be to correctly interface with the female receptacle, thus, I stand my ground until it can be proved to me that the standard that these devices are designed and constructed to meets the requirements of BS1363 to correctly interface with the socket outlet.
johnmurray  
#9 Posted : 10 November 2013 15:04:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

I have one of said devices, where the 13A plug unit interfaces (sic) with the power supply unit very like the above image. The PINS on the 13A plug are compliant, as in that the power pins are partially shielded and the earth pin is completely metal (it could be completely plastic to conform). However, the slider part on the plug that clips into the power supply cannot be complaint with the safety standard because it is possible to contact the power pins on the slider part of the plug, albeit not with fingers., if plugged-in without that charger attached.
Grizzly  
#10 Posted : 10 November 2013 21:02:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grizzly

paul.skyrme wrote:
There is no reason that these parts cannot be made to meet the requirements of that standard, and they must be to correctly interface with the female receptacle, thus, I stand my ground until it can be proved to me that the standard that these devices are designed and constructed to meets the requirements of BS1363 to correctly interface with the socket outlet.
Perhaps it would be instructive to all of us if you were to have a look around your home/office/other location, and bring to our attention any plug-in chargers/PSUs etc. that you find that are "marked to comply with BS1363". Some sort of photographic evidence would be nice.
Ron Hunter  
#11 Posted : 10 November 2013 23:08:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Easy there, folks. Please don't hijack the thread with a 1363 argument. The real issue is that we have appliances which are obviously unsafe, yet are in common usage. What's the solution?
johnmurray  
#12 Posted : 11 November 2013 06:39:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Carry-on using them until someone gets injured, then legislation will be configured to solve the problem, then down the pub ?
Ron Hunter  
#13 Posted : 11 November 2013 12:53:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I detect a faint edge of cynicism in that post John. I've written to the Electrical Safety Council today and will be meeting Trading Standards soon. I'm pondering getting in touch with HSE. If anyone has a thought on who best to contact there, I'd be obliged if you could share. I'll keep you posted.
Jeff Watt  
#14 Posted : 11 November 2013 13:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jeff Watt

Ron Not being funny but Amazon must be responsible for the supply of thousands of these; they may be interested if they were copied in on any contacts with trading standards and HSE. That said without the aid of "video" it is difficult to see what is going on here.
Ron Hunter  
#15 Posted : 11 November 2013 14:01:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Here's a "typical" on Youtube. Whilst the connectors on the back of the adaptor aren't evident, but hopefull you'll get the idea that the rear of the plug adaptor has exposed, unshuttered contacts.
Baldwin30623  
#16 Posted : 11 November 2013 14:22:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Baldwin30623

Hi Ron Read this thread and not too sure where the risk is coming from. If after fitting the required adapter to fit in the necessary socket you have exposed conductors, that is definately a risk or if when you come to pull the adapter away from the socket you leave the face plate, complete with pins behind with exposed contactors then that is also definately a risk as the safety device retaining the two parts together have failed. But if the risk is from inserting the face plate alone in the socket, then I see that no more of a risk than inserting say a screwdriver into the pin receptors of the wall socket (both not advised, I hasten to add, as extrememly dangerous!) and if that is a significant within the household then a quick remedy is to fit socket blanks. Trading standards will be interested if the design is inherantly dangerous or if a safety device, such as the means of retention, has the likleyhood of failure as will be the manufacturer, but if the design is for interchangeability with an effective means of retention once fitted then I think you may stall for the reasons above. Lawrence
johnmurray  
#17 Posted : 11 November 2013 14:26:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Cynicism? Me Ron? ! Oh dear.........why could that be: http://www.bs1363.org.uk/ Now, about Amazon......
stillp  
#18 Posted : 11 November 2013 14:47:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stillp

Baldwin30623 wrote:
Hi Ron if the risk is from inserting the face plate alone in the socket, then I see that no more of a risk than inserting say a screwdriver into the pin receptors of the wall socket (both not advised, I hasten to add, as extrememly dangerous!) and if that is a significant within the household then a quick remedy is to fit socket blanks.
Lawrence, a BS 1363 socket has shutters to prevent the insertion of a screwdriver (unless of course it's been damaged by the use of those appalling "socket blanks") whereas these chargers, having an earth pin, can open the shutters.
walker  
#19 Posted : 11 November 2013 14:52:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

I see an LA - I think it might have been Nottingham, have just sacked half of their trading standards folks last week "in the cutbacks". So open season for anyone who wants to place dangerous equipment on the market. If I had no morals, I reckon I could be a millionaire by this time next year (rodney)
Ron Hunter  
#20 Posted : 11 November 2013 22:43:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I'm delighted to have received a very prompt and very positive reply from the Electrical Safety Council, who have apparently has quite a few enquiries regarding this type of appliance. I'll endeavour to keep you posted on developments - could take a while. Meantime, can anyone suggest an appropriate contact at HSE?
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