You talk about people ending up behind bars. Name one instance where this has happened except where the person was virtually a one man band. When this changes then owners/MDs/CEOs will change. I'm not holding my breath

give your md a copy of this, it works for me ! my md went through 4 years of hell on a charge of corporate manslaughter. see summary If I apply Mr James’ evidence in the witness box, the company fell short of the required standard, but had done something to address the risk, albeit not nearly enough. The measures required to address it (training, boards, barriers and a harness or line) would not have been expensive to install; (c) The standards of safety were generally reasonable at the time of the accident, as the AXA report showed.. However I accept that at the Hyde works, there was less attention to the requirements of risk assessment and training generally than at Chester; (d) The responsibilities for the breach lie at the door of the director in charge of the Hyde works. Having heard evidence at the trial on this issue, I regard the other directors as bearing no or little responsibility for the failure to set up a proper system at Hyde. 1. As to the factors in paragraph 7- aggravating factors- I find those I have already identified, but no others. I should make it plain that I regard the failures by the company as serious

Psychopaths. Read Jon Ronson's book "The Psychopath Test". Some people really don't care and never will regardless of what is said, how it is said and any threatened penalties.

Jonty Your story is highly relevant We need to be aware of the pressures the top man is often under. I try to take solutions not problems to my bosses........... doesn't always work but hey I tried!

Some interesting comments in the above posts. In my opinion every organisation is different in its attitude and approach to Health & Safety Management, where some organisations will completely embrace you and your ideas and push for above and beyond what is legal compliance, others are more than happy to just about comply with the law. For me its all about the culture within the organisation and leadership from the very top, if the man/woman at the top of the tree is looking for excellence then excellence you will get, if he/she is happy with a minimum level of legal compliance again this is what you will get. I am also a believer that this type of attitude is evident with regards to Quality & Environmental matters too. If we as safety professionals are sitting at middle management level then we can only drive our aims so far unless we can sell our ideas to those above us in the companies hirerachy, and this can be done successfully by undertaking our role in a more pragmatic manner, and by becoming a solution finder as well as a problem finder. There will be however, those people whom you just cannot reach - both beneath you and above you in the companies hierarchy. Dealing with those beneath you can be challenging and becomes a quest of winning over hearts and minds, but you will also need to bear in mind there will be those whom dont want to conform and you may have to relieve these types of people of their duties through the companies disciplinary procedures. Dealing with those above whom are difficult to reach is a much more complex issue and all you can do is keep chipping away at them taking small pieces off at a time until you gradually wear them down, and also try to win those senior people around them over too, as they may well be able to influence their decision making. They may also come to the end of their time with the company and be replaced by someone a little more receptive or you may reach the point where you feel like your banging your head in the wall and its starting to hurt - when this happens you know its time to move on!

As has been said some people you just cant reach. And some people need to be coached over time and might just get there, and sometimes it isnt worth the effort and its best to find another job. Not always easy but if it is an option....? I left one job after four years partly because the the Chairperson wouldnt listen to some sound advice about fire safety, meeting rooms and people with mobility problems. Fortunately the previous two jobs have had leaders in place who were very positive about safety.

I’m given to understand that there are millions of organisations in the UK. Consider a global scale and we are likely to be in the billions. So it seems logical that there are some leaders who will be reluctant to do things they don’t want to, no matter what the approach. Of course not all of them will be leading organisations engaged in high risk activities. Jonty in #7 and Walker #8 make the point that it might be worth while considering what the world looks like to the leaders. In a book entitled ‘How to Win Friends and Influence people’ by Dale Carnegie he suggests – amongst many other things – that people are not generally interested in your problems: they are interested in their own. If opportunities can be found to solve senior executive’s problems, they may be more receptive to approaches the next time around. If you have direct access to the senior executive it may be of benefit in the long term to get him or her to expand on their views about how they see health and safety as a business issue. How does he/she see it in comparison to other ‘risk’ issues that could impact on the business? The last Chief Executive I spoke to said that business issues didn’t bother him. He had vast experience of leading different organisations, many which were involved with high risk activities. The one thing that affected his sleep was if someone could be seriously hurt ‘on his shift’. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity. While talk a jail, fines, etc may be appropriate in some circumstances, trying to see things through other people’s eyes may help provide solutions that help them see things through our eyes. Unfortunately there are no templates to help. At this point I’m reminded of an anecdote told by Peter Falk, the American actor who played the detective role in Columbo some years ago. In his younger days he went to the optician, who looked quite old to him. Motioning to Peter to take a chair, he asked him to cover his right eye and read the chart. The optician wrote some notes as Peter read out the letters. “Now the other one.” the optician asked. “The right eye is glass.” said Peter. “Well, do the best you can.” was the reply. We can only do our best!! Cheers. Nigel