Rank: New forum user 
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Please advise if it is a requirement for anyone driving HGV's across a yard to hold a HGV licence? The issue of competency is obvious however, I would like to understand the requirement to hold a valid HGV licence if the movement takes place either a) in a yard which is not accessible by third party vehicles or b) in a yard which is accessible by third party vehicles. I suspect if it is the latter then the yard is deemed to be a 'public highway' and motor insurance is required (which will require a HGV licence).
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Rank: Forum user
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No you dont need a licence to drive a vehicle on private land including a HGV or even a tank
however if the person was to drive over someone how could you class them as competant when it comes to the insurance there would be no vehicle cover, only Public liablity and it would cause a night mare
you could always use a shunter to move the flatbeds and plate off the 5th wheel to move the cabs but then you would have to look at when the person passed there test and the weght of the cab if over 7.5 ton etc etc
Best thing to let the persons who ahave passed there test and are insured to drive anything that can take a fifth wheel or is classed as a hgv
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Rank: Super forum user
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I think you are right to asume that an area to which the public have access would almost certainly be regarded as a highway and thus an HGV licence would be required.
But can you guarantee that what you regard as private land wouldn't also be regarded as a highway? Seems better not to take the chance adn require all shunters (becasue I guess that is what you are talking about) hold an HGV lcience.
On another note: Think about the challenges for site supervision if there were two sets of requirements in place.
Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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Tend to agree with posters 2 and 3. What is deemed to be a public space is very broad, so even an open pedestrian gate could render your yard public, even if vehicular gates are closed and locked.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Definition of a public highway taken from the Highway Code:
“The definition of a road in England and Wales is ‘any highway and any other road to which the public has access and includes bridges over which a road passes’ (RTA 1988 sect 192(1)). In Scotland, there is a similar definition which is extended to include any way over which the public have a right of passage (R(S)A 1984 sect 151(1)).
It is important to note that references to ‘road’ therefore generally include footpaths, bridleways and cycle tracks, and many roadways and driveways on private land (including many car parks). In most cases, the law will apply to them and there may be additional rules for particular paths or ways. Some serious driving offences, including drink-driving offences, also apply to all public places, for example public car parks.”
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Rank: New forum user
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That may be a public highway, but many roads especially on Trading Estates are not public. I worked for many years on one that was private and several Companies on the estate drove vehicles from one unit to another with out tax but with insurances. At the week end the place was full of learner drivers and I can confirm that the local Police did not want to know. The site owner did not stop anyone and therefore all sorts happened and certainly lorries were moved by none licenced drivers. (not non competent).
Certainly it is better not to take a chance and ensure that your drivers are qualified.
However there are many large Trading Estates that are private land with small notices to confirm as such, and many have parking and other rules that you may not know you are breaking.
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Rank: Super forum user
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My comments were based on my experience as a beak (many, many years ago so a little hazy now) but we always warned drivers being disqualified that driving a vehicle on supposed private land (road or field or whatever) could be construed as breaking their ban. The Highway Code definition may well be correct for what is a public highway, but liability may well extend beyond the highway.
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Rank: New forum user
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Further to the replies given by the above on use of personnel driving LGV type vehicles with or without trailers on private land. The private indicates what it is! Furthermore the supervisor in charge will have authourised the personnel who are competent to operate the vehicles i.e. driver's, those that are not competent or without a licence will be told in no uncertain terms what they have and have not to do. The use of plates over fifth wheels may not be the answer (if the garage/facility have any), a landrover or even a pickup can be fitted with a fifth wheel but then falls into a separate category licence wise.
With regard to roads as public highways, yes the definitions in the highway codes are correct but they are definitions. A roadway is private until such time as it is adopted by the council and as such the authorities will not want anything to do with an accident unless someone is seriously injured as Colin states in his last blog.
A typical example is a new housing estate, this is classed as private until all the houses are completed, all the roads are complete (including the top wearing surface), all drains and services are completed, signed off and the whole package is accepted by the local council. it is then adopted whereby it will get the road sweeper along, gulley sucker, gritter along and be under the control of the local council and repaired by the local council.
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Rank: Super forum user
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This a complicated law area as if private land is regularly allowing public access and use it [the private land] can in certain circumstances be deemed to fall under highways law and be seen as a highway with all that it implies
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Rank: Forum user
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Private land or not - the "authorities" may not have an interest under Highways legislation but if there is an accident, HSE are not bound by The Road Traffic Act. If there is a death, the police can still look at possible manslaughter charges, to which 'not trained' would certainly feature as part of the gross negligence test set out in R v Adamoko and edge the "gross" part a little further.
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Rank: Forum user
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at the risk of sounding stupid, if the person did not have a license and had an accident!how could you prove the drivers competence ? and justify him driving in the first place.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Having worked for a large chemical company in the past, we regularly had tankers delivered to site for filling with various substances. Tanker trailers were dropped off and picked up by a site shunter and parked at various filling points around the site. The shunter drivers did not have LGV / HGV licenses. However, they were trained to move the vehicle and trailers around the site. Out of interest the shunter vehicle had no MOT as it was only used on the site and maintained internally.
You could most probably get you staff trained by a LGV driver training provider to carry out movements on your private site. The training would be as valid as FLT training. As site operator you only need to give authorisation for a person to move the vehicles providing you think them competent to do so.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You need to be very careful with unadopted roads. They do not need to be adopted to be covered by the law.
Note a parking case:
Public access makes private land public (BN 400)
Issued with a PCN for parking on a paved area alongside the Salvation Army hall, the appellant appealed on the ground that no contravention had occurred. The Adjudicator ruled that, while it was not disputed that the land belonged to the Salvation Army and was not adopted by the council, photographs showed that the adopted area and the Salvation Army land appeared as one continuous pavement, so that a pedestrian would have no reason to distinguish between any part of the area and would quite reasonably assume that there was public access to the entire width of paving. Thus, the Adjudicator found, the whole area was one to which the public had access, whether by right or tolerance, the location was thus one to which the bylaw applied and a contravention was established.
The appeal was dismissed.
The only truly private place is one closed to all the public at all times.
Everywhere else should be regarded as suspect.
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