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dickoa84  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2013 06:27:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
dickoa84

Hi All Hope you guys can help me out a little. Although quite late in the day I have just been given the task of taking over the OSHAS 18001 implementation it was previously with our compliance manager. I'm struggling a little bit with the whole sort or point behind I was hoping there would be some sort of gap analysis conducted by our consultant pointing out the gaps. I suppose he has sort of done this however not very well in my opinion. He has identified several procedures which we are supposedly missing which are below. He then instructed the previous management rep to create these procedures and have them sat separately just for the purpose of OSHAS giving them a different document code to our current Health and Safety Procedures. Do I really need a procedure for things like communication or do I just need to provide evidence of our communication methods. Also in pretty sure we already have some of the procedures required like document control we already have this surely I don't need two. Any help would be great. 1. Health and Safety Manual 4.1 4. Legal and other requirement procedure clause 4.3. 2 5. Organizational chart for Health & Safety / Job descriptions clause 4.4.1(specially safety officer/safety manager/safety committee members) 6. Training procedure clause 4.4.2 7. Communication procedure 4.4.3.1 9. Control of Documents procedure clause 4.4.5 10. Operational control procedures (existing SAF is part of this, and other SOP/WI/Method statement depend on results of Risk assessment) clause 4.4.6 12. Performance measurement and monitoring procedure clause 4.5.1 13. Evaluation of compliance procedure clause 4.5.2 15. Nonconformity, corrective action, and preventive action procedure clause 4.5.3.2 16. Control of records procedure clause 4.5.4 17. Internal audit procedure 4.5.5 18. Forms to be used for each procedures as part of records requirements under clause 4.5.4
CarlT  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2013 07:29:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CarlT

Ring the consultant and ask them to explain what it is they are looking for. your current procedures should be the basis of what will become your OHSAS18001 management system. If you currently have ISO 9001 you will already have a lot of what is required.
achrn  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2013 08:27:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

We have 9001 and 14001 and I'm just in the process of sorting 18001. We certainly don't have separate procedures. We are modifying / supplementing existing procedures so they meet the requirements of all three standards. It does require some modification, but things like document control and training and corrective actions are substantially untouched. I wouldn't create new.
SBH  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2013 08:30:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

If you need a template gap analysis let me know and I will send something over SBH
6foot4  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2013 09:06:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
6foot4

achrn wrote:
We have 9001 and 14001 and I'm just in the process of sorting 18001. We certainly don't have separate procedures. We are modifying / supplementing existing procedures so they meet the requirements of all three standards. It does require some modification, but things like document control and training and corrective actions are substantially untouched. I wouldn't create new.
I agree. The systems can essentially run parallel to one another without duplication.
hilary  
#6 Posted : 19 November 2013 12:47:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

It is very much easier to prove in an audit if you have a procedure. We run 14001 and 18001 as one unit, but we do have procedures for communication and the other stuff you have listed as part of the complete management system. The auditor will be looking for evidence and if you have a written procedure and can show evidence to demonstrate it is followed, the headaches for you will be considerably less. I found, because I did EHS but not Quality, when they changed one of their procedures or processes it didn't necessarily continue to comply with my requirements so it was easier to duplicate the procedure and then let the two naturally evolve differently to suit either 9001 or 14001/18001. There is no substitute for a good written set of documents under your own control to cover the requirements. Although hard work initially, the benefits going forward will be immeasurable.
pm1965  
#7 Posted : 19 November 2013 13:08:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pm1965

Hi, I have successfully implemented the standard in several businesses. PM me at pm1965@live.co.uk and i can provide you with most of what you may need. Regards Paul
jontyjohnston  
#8 Posted : 19 November 2013 15:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jontyjohnston

Dick PM me with your email and I will forward you on a detailed gap analysis which you can use. J
B.Bruce  
#9 Posted : 19 November 2013 16:55:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

achrn wrote:
We have 9001 and 14001 and I'm just in the process of sorting 18001. We certainly don't have separate procedures. We are modifying / supplementing existing procedures so they meet the requirements of all three standards. It does require some modification, but things like document control and training and corrective actions are substantially untouched. I wouldn't create new.
Hi I also agree. All 3 standards are very similar. Remember, the management system needs to work for the business. There is no point in have managements system for the sake of it.
A Kurdziel  
#10 Posted : 20 November 2013 13:42:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Perhaps you should look at PAS 99 -Integrated Management Standard which can bring two or more standards together into a single framework.
Jennifer13  
#11 Posted : 25 November 2013 16:19:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Jennifer13

We have just achieved 18001 and I was in a similar situation. We had an external auditor come in and recommend a lot of duplication of policies and procedures which we didn't want to do. I managed to speak to another auditor and was advised that cross referencing into other policies and procedures was absolutely fine. We run 18001 together with 9001 and 14001 as a combined integrated management system and there is a lot of cross over, as long as the standard is covered you do not require new procedures to be written. The 18002 provides guidance on 18001 and what you need to achieve it, we found this really helpful.
yulkok  
#12 Posted : 01 December 2013 21:18:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
yulkok

I'd recommend going on an 18001 lead auditors course with a reputable body. It will highlight to you what procedures are required as it teaches you how to audit against the standard. It all becomes a lot clearer once you understand what the external auditors are looking for. Regards Yul
brian constantine  
#13 Posted : 01 December 2013 23:00:34(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
brian constantine

hi I would get a copy of the 18001 standard and read it. where the standard says "shall2 you will need a procedure. remember a procedure can form part of a manual. in terms of communication, you do indeed need a procedure (some form of written document0 regards brian
jarsmith83  
#14 Posted : 03 December 2013 16:27:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

Hi all Firstly, as an auditor I would be looking for clear processes. These do not necessarily have to be documented as long as there is a procedure in place and it is clear for all to follow i.e. everyone understands the procedure. It seems to me that your consultant has done the minimum required of him and has done exactly what has been asked, documented the gaps, but this is difficult to comment on specifically as none of us on this forum can examine the communication or evidence. A simple small organisation can 'work' with unwritten procedures as it is easy to communicate what is expected, but as organisations grow it is far more easier to communicate through documented procedures. So, to clarify, an auditor cannot 'fail' someone if he/she can clearly follow a procedure during auditing, if they can clearly evidence it taking place. However, 18001 is about continual improvement so the auditor may comment on improvement opportunities. Some clauses in the 18001 standards HAVE TO BE documented and this is clearly define in the standards. For instance: Audit: systematic, independent and documented process for obtaining “audit evidence” and evaluating it objectively to determine the extent to which “audit criteria” are fulfilled Communication can be easily identified through simple means such as sign off attendance forms etc. Really, if you're having trouble implementing such a system then you really should seek professional advice and I would look towards an auditor who is accredited to both 18001 and 9001, as 9001 will look at your quality management system which could save you £££ in the future, especially in terms of quality control and efficiency. You are definitely very right in saying that procedures can be cross referenced otherwise the 'communication element would be a stand alone procedure which doesn't make sense. It should be detailed in each process how the information will be communicated to relevant parties. Although again, there might be a justifiable reason why you need a stand alone procedure and that's the very reason why I recommend you seek advice.
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