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safetyamateur  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2013 15:37:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

I understand clinical staff need this to practice, so it's a mandatory requirement for them. Anyone know a good reason why others at risk from this disease (for example waste-handlers, cleaners in clinical areas) might not be treated in a similar way (i.e. mandatory Hep B)?
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2013 15:53:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Perhaps of some use: http://www.hse.gov.uk/bi...atitis-b-vaccination.htm The virus may remain viable for days outside the host body, but it also needs a route into the next person. Front-line staff are at risk from ingestion, bites etc. others can be protected by good hygiene practice. I understand there is a potential for serious adverse reaction to the inoculation to consider too?
johnmurray  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2013 16:05:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Then you would need to have a routine to handle the inevitable people who a poor serological response to the vaccine, or no response. Still, maybe you could force them to have another three-course immunisation? And, of course, there is the four/five month wait..... Then there is the burning question....why was it not done before, and how at risk are/have the staff been?
Canopener  
#4 Posted : 20 November 2013 18:00:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

The cynic in me might suggest that 'support' staff might not be offered this if as is increasingly the case, they work for a contractor who has been awarded the contract on the basis of lowest bid!
Zimmy  
#5 Posted : 20 November 2013 18:07:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

When carrying out electrical inspections and testing for a contractor under contract to 'Welsh Water' it was a requirement that I, and my assistant were immunised with the jab and others inc Polio
Ron Hunter  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2013 21:56:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The transmission route for polio in that circumstance isn't something you'd want to dwell on! That's fecal-oral, for those that haven't had their tea yet...............!
Clairel  
#7 Posted : 21 November 2013 09:21:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

As far as I am aware you cannot compel anyone to have immunisation. 1. It breaches someone's human rights. You can't force someone to have a substance injected into them. They may have valid reasons for not wanting that done. 2. Immunisation is a second line of defence only. Primary defence is to have systems in place to prevent infection in the first place. By all means offer, even recommend But you can't force someone to be immunised. This subject has been discussed many times on the forum...if the search engine is working.
safetyamateur  
#8 Posted : 21 November 2013 10:24:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

Thanks, all. Just to clarify the support staff can be at risk from sharps/infected waste; less likelhood but equal severity to a clinical worker. I suppose the route of my question is: if immunisation is a reasonable control, based on risk assessment (admittedly lowdown the hierarchy of controls), is there a special case for this control being optional? I'll try and dig out the previous discusssions. Thanks again.
johnmurray  
#9 Posted : 21 November 2013 14:40:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Zimmy  
#10 Posted : 21 November 2013 19:06:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

All the eh rubbish we were exposed to ... pass the needles... we had to switch gear off/on exposed to droplets/sprays from paddle wheels... oh what fun! Lets just say it's an education!
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 21 November 2013 23:08:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Quite right. Had one three course vaccination; got no immunity. Had another six months later; still not immune. Been thigh deep in some of the most infested waterways in the country, even concrete couldn't live in it. Hacked my arm open on a muck spreader. The good old days. Nowadays I get letters from school about kids flu shots....noting it says at the bottom: "If you decide to not have your child immunised against influenza you should understand that the consequences may be serious for the child. Please sign below that you have read and understand that" Still no hepatitis though. Had the pneumovax. Don't have it, there is a reason why they inject the arm you don't write with. It doesn't work for two days after the injection. No pressure.
safetyamateur  
#12 Posted : 22 November 2013 09:50:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

"Hacked my arm open on a muck spreader" is the single greatest line I have ever read on here.
DavidGault  
#13 Posted : 22 November 2013 15:01:28(UTC)
Rank:: Forum user
DavidGault

The NHS guidance on Hep B says that anyone who is routinely exposed to the virus can have the jab for free. I don't know if your people will qulaify though. The company I work for provides the option of having Hep B jabs to first aiders. We aren't an unusual risk site - just a manufacturing plant - but we will pay for our first aiders to have it if they wish. It costs around £90 from GPs.
safetyamateur  
#14 Posted : 22 November 2013 15:05:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
safetyamateur

Thanks, all. These are our own cleaners and groundspeople, so there's no problem with providing it. It was more the 'can it be an optional thing?'. Having read through a number guidance docs, it seems they're not necessarily considered that 'at risk' and then we have all the 'can you/can't you insist these people have it?'. Seems not.
Canopener  
#15 Posted : 22 November 2013 22:02:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

safetyamateur wrote:
"Hacked my arm open on a muck spreader" is the single greatest line I have ever read on here.
I am pretty sure it's a line from a wurzels song :-)
johnmurray  
#16 Posted : 23 November 2013 17:57:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

It isn't an injection, it's three injections; over several months. "What does hepatitis B immunisation involve? For full protection, you will need three injections of hepatitis B vaccine over four to six months. You will have a blood test taken one month after the third dose to check the vaccinations have worked. You should then be immune (resistant to the virus) for at least five years. You can have a booster injection five years after the initial injection. Hepatitis B vaccine on the NHS GP surgeries and sexual health or GUM clinics usually provide the hepatitis B vaccination free of charge if you are in an at risk group. GPs are not obliged to provide the hepatitis jab on the NHS if you're not thought to be at extra risk. GPs may charge for the vaccine if you want it as a travel vaccine, or they may refer you to a travel clinic so you can get vaccinated privately. The current cost of the vaccine (in 2013) is around £30 a dose" http://www.nhs.uk/Condit...hepatitis-b-vaccine.aspx Fortunately, mine were free. My firm didn't have to pay. It was them that told me!
Steve e ashton  
#17 Posted : 24 November 2013 12:02:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Safetyamateur asked: "Anyone know a good reason why others at risk from this disease (for example waste-handlers, cleaners in clinical areas) might not be treated in a similar way (i.e. mandatory Hep B)?" Simple really - the risk is of transfer to patients. Where clinical staff are undertaking 'invasive procedures' you don't want the patients leaving with more than they came with. Other staff can be 'offered' the protection but they are 'expendable'.... Most NHS Trusts and private hospitals / healthcare providers will insist on it (make it mandatory) for surgeons, clinicians, dentists, surgery attendants etc. (Claire - whilst you can't 'force' someone to have a medical treatment - neither can they 'force' you to employ them. Its been a fact of life for many years for those working in this sector... and many Occ Health mandatory tests - drug and alcohol screening for example similarly blur the lines between what you can force people to do...) It may be a little callous (and I don't necessarily agree with the morality) but claims from patients are likely to be more expensive than claims from cleaners and nurses.
johnmurray  
#18 Posted : 24 November 2013 14:09:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

That still leaves the problem of what to do with non, or partial, responders. In the health professions they are restricted to non-invasive procedures and removed from exposure to body fluids etc.
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