Rank: Forum user 
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As far as I am aware there are no good health and safety reasons for not giving computers to charity once a company has replaced them with newer models. As I see it no legislation prevents that course of action and I can see no legal precedent for not allowing it. There may be IT reasones, licences on software for example but I am not aware of any legal reasons and I think it is an attempt to hide behind H&S.
What do you think?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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We've given old PCs to charity. Most of them are now in schools in Africa, apparently.
We needed the paperwork to show that we hadn't quietly dumped them in a hole in the ground somewhere (ie environmental issues) but no H&S issues that we identified.
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Rank: Forum user
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achrn wrote:We've given old PCs to charity. Most of them are now in schools in Africa, apparently.
We needed the paperwork to show that we hadn't quietly dumped them in a hole in the ground somewhere (ie environmental issues) but no H&S issues that we identified.
Thanks achrn. I hoped that would be the case.
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Rank: Forum user
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In my opinion it is more of an environmental issue than health and safety not to mention data protection. If you are in the UK the fact that you are getting rid of them leads you down the path that they are waste. You therefore have a duty of care to dispose of waste appropriately so it might be wise to get confirmation from the regulator that what you intend to do to is ok. Secondly I'd suggest that you need to consider the information held on the hard drives. There have been plenty of stories in the press over people buying second hand computer and finding an Aladdin's cave on them.
Regards
Yul
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Rank: Forum user
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YulKok wrote:In my opinion it is more of an environmental issue than health and safety not to mention data protection. If you are in the UK the fact that you are getting rid of them leads you down the path that they are waste. You therefore have a duty of care to dispose of waste appropriately so it might be wise to get confirmation from the regulator that what you intend to do to is ok. Secondly I'd suggest that you need to consider the information held on the hard drives. There have been plenty of stories in the press over people buying second hand computer and finding an Aladdin's cave on them.
Regards
Yul
Thanks Yul. Interesting but still not H&S. My concern is that they may call it a safety issue when in reality it is more as you describe the situation.
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I raised the issue with a previous company, but we decided in the end not to, as our insurers were not happy about the liability issue if, for example, somebody got an electric shock of one of the PCs. Prior to handing them over you probably should visually inspect and PAT test them, as well as wiping the hard drives cleen of any data.
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Gavin Gibson wrote:I raised the issue with a previous company, but we decided in the end not to, as our insurers were not happy about the liability issue if, for example, somebody got an electric shock of one of the PCs. Prior to handing them over you probably should visually inspect and PAT test them, as well as wiping the hard drives cleen of any data. Thanks Gavin. Our insurers don't have a problem with it - apparently once the computers go out the door they don't consider themselves liable at all. That is an interesting difference of opinion though.
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Rank: Forum user
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It is not even a waste issue as the computers are not being dumped or recycled but rather are being passed on to a new owner. As far as DP goes it is probably best to donate them minus the hard drives (which you would then need to dispose of correctly in accordance with the weee regs after making them unreadable)
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Rank: Super forum user
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CarlT wrote:As far as DP goes it is probably best to donate them minus the hard drives (which you would then need to dispose of correctly in accordance with the weee regs after making them unreadable) I consider this excessive. The high profile cases of people obtaining second-hand PCs and discovering data didn't happen where the disposing company deleted everything - they happened where the disposing company did nothing at all and just pushed the machines out the door. Simply delete the data. If you really must, run a secure deletion from a bootable USB stick. If the NSA or someone gets hold of the machine, yes they might recover something, but that's not what this is about - if the NSA want the data they won't be fishing about in old PCs you've passed on. A PC minus hard disk is not worthwhile to any of the charities that want them. The cost of the new disk for them to install is more than the value of the remnant. What's a school in Africa going to do with a PC that doesn't have a hard disk? They can't nip out to PC World and buy one - that's rather the point. Can't let a wiped hard disk go to charity because of DPA is just the same as can't have a lucky-dip at the school fete because of elfen safetee.
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You may be right or you may be wrong, my expertise is definately not in computer technology (and never will be) but having heard all the horror stories about identity theft and industrial espionage due to thirld world techies hacking used computers I don't know if I would risk it. At the least anyone considering sending computers to charity would be wise to ensure the person wiping the data from the hdd knows exactly what they are doing.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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This has been seen as a way of dumping obsolete equipment in the guise of "charity". No one gets rid of up to date equipment, do they? It could be that under the WEEE regs obsolete PCs etc are still classed as waste even if "given away". So, a proper trail would be needed to show that they were not in fact, waste, but "surplus to requirements".
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Rank: Super forum user
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CarlT wrote:You may be right or you may be wrong, my expertise is definately not in computer technology (and never will be) but having heard all the horror stories about identity theft and industrial espionage due to thirld world techies hacking used computers I don't know if I would risk it. EXACTLY the attitude that bans lucky dip from the school fete: Oooh, I've heard lots of horror stories about health and safety so I don't think I'll risk it.
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achrn wrote:CarlT wrote:You may be right or you may be wrong, my expertise is definately not in computer technology (and never will be) but having heard all the horror stories about identity theft and industrial espionage due to thirld world techies hacking used computers I don't know if I would risk it. EXACTLY the attitude that bans lucky dip from the school fete: Oooh, I've heard lots of horror stories about health and safety so I don't think I'll risk it. I agree, donating the computers without hard drives will be pointless. However, unless the hard drive is totally destroyed, forensic experts are able to recover any deleted information. Given that not eveyone is a forensic expert, and the level of information important to the company will differ from machine to machine based on who used it, one could review this on a case by case basis e.g. what did the machines contain and who are they going to. So unless you purposefully getting rid of defective equipment that could cause others to come to harm, I don't foresee any H&S issues. However this could be a risk for intellectual property falling into the wrong hands and not something most H&S bods are qualified to answer.
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Rank: Forum user
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@achrn, I have nothing against school fete lucky dips and it is in fact not anything like the same attitude.
There is a legitimate cause for caution and unless you are suitably qualified and can state for a fact that:
"The high profile cases of people obtaining second-hand PCs and discovering data didn't happen where the disposing company deleted everything - they happened where the disposing company did nothing at all and just pushed the machines out the door."
I do not think it is wise to make such cavalier remarks. So, are you? If so you might wish to share with us some evidence to back up your statement.
A simple google search shows that even the best data erasing software might not do the job you hope for and many of these articles do in fact recommend removing and crushing the hdd. As previously stated, I am not technically savvy on erasing these disks so in my computer tech ignorance I am sure I would not leave the hdd in any computer I was giving away.
You may notice however that I did also state:
"At the least anyone considering sending computers to charity would be wise to ensure the person wiping the data from the hdd knows exactly what they are doing."
Is this not better than having a punt and hoping it will be done right?
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Rank: Super forum user
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CarlT wrote:@it is in fact not anything like the same attitude. It's exactly the same attitude - 'I've read in the Daily Mail that bad things will happen, so I'll stop it'. CarlT wrote:
I do not think it is wise to make such cavalier remarks. So, are you? If so you might wish to share with us some evidence to back up your statement.
It wasn't a cavalier remark. No I don't think it useful to publish my CV in this forum. FWIW, my professional expertise with computers is greater than my professional expertise with H&S, and neither is my primary professional role. I am, however, responsible for both for a reasonable size organisation. CarlT wrote:
A simple google search shows that even the best data erasing software might not do the job you hope for
Gosh, really? Perhaps I should have said something like "If the NSA or someone gets hold of the machine, yes they might recover something, but that's not what this is about" in my previous post. Oh look, I did say that in my previous post.
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Rank: Forum user
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So we have established:
1) that you like school fete lucky dips
2) that you read the Daily Mail
3) that you are not really a safety professional or a computer professional
4) that you think it is only the NSA or SOMEONE who is interested in recovering data from old computers
Then you expect rational people to accept comments like "The high profile cases of people obtaining second-hand PCs and discovering data didn't happen where the disposing company deleted everything" as being authorative when you are not prepared to back them up with any evidence. It's a bit like me saying "the moon is made of green cheese", I don't know if it is or not but I have a feeling,,,,
Say what you like but in this world of data and identity theft I would prefer to make sure no one else can access anything on any computer I might donate to some school in who knows where and if I am paranoid then I am paranoid on the safe side of the fence.
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