Walking through the welding workshop today i noticed the guys using an old welding trick ( due to the heater not working in the workshop) in the middle of the workshop away from any flammables, electric equipment or persons a piece of steel on top of tressels with propane gas bottle with torch attached to it burning through the metal to create heat in the workshop. Now given that it is away from anu hazards or dangers would you consider this a risk and why ?

I would be interested in finding out how they ensure the torch stays in it's correct position and what effect the radiated heat might have on the hose that the torch is attached to over a longer duration.

Why do they need to burn anything? Surely all the heat generated by the torch is going to end up in the workshop anyway. LB

¨Why do they need to burn anything? Surely all the heat generated by the torch is going to end up in the workshop anyway¨ Theyŕe not ¨burning through¨ anything, the torch is heating the metal up, which then radiates the heat. You can also heat soup up and make a cuppa from the hotplate. ¨A reason for not doing it? You might just be invalidating your (property/first party) insurance policy¨ It´s a welding shop, there are going to lots more risks than a heated plate....Loads of sparks, and fumes, and people with cold hands and legs. I suggest fixing the heating. Obviously not a priority though. All too obviously the company has not installed temporary heaters....staff welfare not a priority then. NOW, if the OFFICES heating packed-up they´d call in the SAS to fix it.

all valid comments guys i like the pros and cons. I myself did not think this was a hazard due to the fact that welding actives are commenced in this area . It was a temporary measure and the heating was fixed that very day . In future it would be a great idea to have temporary heaters but cant see my manager sanctioning this and with retrospect to if the heating was of in the offices it would be an SAS call and gives food for thought. Its a very valid point and makes us aware that the conditions are far worse outside in the workshops compared to the office environment Thanks again , great comments

Loads of oxygen = C3H8+5O2 > 3CO2+4H2O+heat Not a lot of O2 = C3H8 + 4.5 O2 → 2 CO2 + CO + 4 H2O + heat It´s a workshop. Keeping draughts out is not a management priority. Believe me, buying office toilet paper is much higher up the priority list than broken windows in a workshop, or putting draught excluders on the doors. And if a propane torch is dangerous, what about all those portable heaters using propane, paraffin or diesel? Now, having the advantage of being mobile and visiting garages....I noted one heating the place by burning old engine oil.....in a 45-gallon drum....the oil dripping in through a hole in the lid and the fumes being vented via a length of central-heating duct out of a window. Lovely. The good old days (except they are not that old)

" Small biz doesn´t believe in control measures, just getting the job done" Thats the problem I'm afraid!!! .

For what its worth and as I recall very basically, PUWER states that work equipment should be fit for purpose,and used for its intended purpose, so we are no longer able to knock up a pair a ladders from scrap timber or use a packing crate on the forks of an FLT for order picking. If you had an accident at work because you were using a steel bar as a hammer which deteriorated to the point it caused you injury , where would the liability lie? Would this not be similar, as a welding kit is not classed as heating equipment? Regards, Barrie.

Might I suggest that there is a fine line between provocative and blunt against rude and arrogant. That is a line that we all teeter along when posting on here. It is very easy to be judgmental of the person and forget to discuss/debate the subject or simply help the O.P. In any event it is a lot easier to listen to, recognise and respect an alternative opinion or new knowledge when it is given in a non-judgemental manner. We all know only what we know and there is not one safety bod, IOSH or not, who knows it all. I do agree that I would find the use of a PTW for routine activity in a welding fab shop most unexpected. Not unknown but definitely neither expected nor necessary. As to the original question. This is simply just poor practice. It is a simple bodge job. It may or may not change the risk profile significantly dependent on the specific circumstances of that workshop and the design of the bodge. Based on the outline description I would want to push for a better solution even if that is only a better design of the existing bodge;-) There is, of course, a residual risk in using bodges but you have to decide for yourself whether that is acceptable to your company, p48

Bob, You said "... insurers: they only care about their premiums." That's as maybe - but when that results in them turning down a claim the costs bounce back onto the firm or business. Seems a bit pointless to take out insurance and then run the risk of not being able to collect in the event of a loss. If your household cover requires you to set the alarm and lock the windows when you leave the house unattended why would one go shopping and leave a window open? If there was a burglary then you'd not be able to claim. Surely risk management professionals should be managing all manner of risks: - those that give rise to possibility of legal action, prosecution etc - those that could result in injury to employees and others - those that could result in a (financial) loss for the business Phil

Thatś ok! On the office V workshop... One place was installing air-con, in the offices of course, and informed the installers that they wanted the heat exchangers mounted within the workshop. So that would have been five heat exchangers venting up to 10KW in a workshop extensively used for welding and flame cutting. The office line was that they would heat the workshop in winter. Fortunately, the installers knew #their# job at least. Heat exchangers outside.