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9Yally  
#1 Posted : 05 December 2013 18:47:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
9Yally


So as some of you know I work for a solar PV installation company and once again our sales guys have gone ahead and signed up an asbestos job.

The roof tiles have been identified as Chrysolite.

Basically we remove the tile, screw a bracket into the rafter and replace the tile.

My guys have no form of asbestos training so they can't go ahead with this job.

Now I was thinking of hiring a Asbestos removal company to take all the tiles out and then my guys screw in the brackets and then they replace tiles and then the solar panels are put in place.

Thoughts ?

Few things that spring to my mind is that the tiles still may be disturbed and release asbestos when they are stepping on them etc.

The Asbestos removal guys would be expected to go up the scaffold, so would need to check if they have W@H training.

I am getting pressured to not keep walking away from these jobs, when in reality they should not be taken on if there is any doubt.

This is basically a last ditch chance of saving the job, but it has it draw backs

Would like some peoples opinions who have more experience working with asbestos

Thanks
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 05 December 2013 19:50:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

First, your guys could and arguably should have basic Asbestos Awareness Training. This does not permit them to work with asbestos per se, but it is a starter for 10. Also, what is this W@H training the asbestos contractors are supposed to have?

I am not overly familiar with Chrysotile roof tiles. I dislike saying "no" because the job is difficult, however I agree with you it would probably be best if your sales guys did not take on work which included asbestos roof tiles, unless there is a hefty premium which the customer is prepared to pay.

That said, the precautions needed would depend on a number of factors - for example, the concentration of asbestos. Typically asbestos cement products contain low levels of Chrysotile (15-25%). The condition of the tiles, the working environment and what work is to be undertaken are just some of the factors which need to considered, plus the tiles may appear to be in good condition but removing them could disturb them and release fibres. You will also need to be mindful that asbestos fibres do not contaminate the roof and therefore put at risk the householders.

Finally, before your chaps do go ahead with the work you will need to consider what your ELI/PLI covers. Many insurance companies will not permit employees working with asbestos or they may charge an extra premium.
9Yally  
#3 Posted : 05 December 2013 20:03:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
9Yally


Thanks for the response Ray.

We will be training our guys in AW but have others things to get in place first.

At present I am not aware of the condition of the tiles etc, but just wanted to get a feel for the views on using the above work method (getting asbestos trained guys to remove and replace tiles) ?

If we did use the above method the guys would still have to work on the roof putting panels in place, screwing them tight and fixing rails etc.

So they would need RPE which need's fitting, training, overalls, gloves etc which they would then have to give to the asbestos removal company at the end, so we would need them there for the duration on the work.

Any more views on this please ?
CarlT  
#4 Posted : 05 December 2013 23:08:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CarlT

9Yally wrote:


Few things that spring to my mind is that the tiles still may be disturbed and release asbestos when they are stepping on them etc.


I am not a roof worker so I don't know (which is why I am asking the question)

Is it common practice for people to step on the roof tiles? For some reason I always believed you shouldn't in case you went through them.
9Yally  
#5 Posted : 06 December 2013 10:04:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
9Yally


Hi CarlT,

Is it common practise for my guys to walk on roof tiles, however we do not allow then to work on anything that has a chance of being fragile such as barn roofs etc
pm1965  
#6 Posted : 06 December 2013 15:31:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pm1965

As Ray has already stated the householders must be considered when removing the tiles. Any damaged tile will contaminate the area and following the removal of the tiles I would have thought that a full environmental clean down would be required. Although this work is not notifiable to the HSE and is unlicensed you will still need to follow strict rules of disposal.
6foot4  
#7 Posted : 06 December 2013 19:16:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
6foot4

Firstly, has the asbestos risk been assessed? This will need to take into account that the work is likely to be undertaken in the open air, the composition of the ACM material and the likelihood that it will release fibres and as mentioned previously the potential for contamination of the building. This would then help highlight the required removal methods and PPE required. Perhaps it would be wise to consult the asbestos removal company you propose to use, because if deemed competent, they are best placed to advise on the removal process (I wasn't sure if you mean't they would replace the existing tiles back or replace with new non-ACM tiles - I assumed the former). Given they might be used to working in many types of environments when removing ACM's it highly likely that providers will have WAH training - you need to make that part of your selection criteria when selecting a provider.

The composition of the roof tile might indicate that the likelihood of contamination below the roof structure is limited given the fibres are sufficiently encapsulated within the material that comprises the roof tile, which means the need for a full environmental clean even in the event of bits coming off the roof tile is very low. If you putting the existing tiles back, it is no different then if they had remained there, as the entire roof comprises the same material - if the roof tile is in decent condition then there is no reason why it can't be placed back. The ideal would be to replace it, but this is not always cost effective and it is accepted practice to manage ACM's in situ that are in good condition.
frankc  
#8 Posted : 07 December 2013 21:27:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

I wonder how this guy's task ended up?

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/...spx?g=posts&t=110390

9Yally  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2014 09:51:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
9Yally


Morning All and Happy New Year.

Just to revive this thread I have been in touch with an asbestos removal company.

They have stated that they can remove the tiles and take them away for us. All we have to do is mark out the tiles we want moving.

I have stated that my guy's have no asbestos training or PPE and he said it doesn't matter, all they will need is type 5 overalls which they will provide.

Is this correct ?

The tiles would have been removed and replaced with non ACM tiles, but the guys would still be stepping on the roof in some instances

Opinions ?
RO  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2014 12:23:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RO

If is Chrysotile then it is non licensed and ops trained int he asbestos essentials work sheets and more formal asbestos awareness training would be good to go.

I'd add face fit Fp3 masks to your PPE items.

you will need to consider if the materials are notifiable under the new Non licensed Notifiable Works. this will depend on the condition that they are in.
9Yally  
#11 Posted : 02 January 2014 13:45:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
9Yally


Ok thanks sharks.

So Face fit training and masks and some basic training from myself and they will be good to go.
Kim Hedges  
#12 Posted : 03 January 2014 12:41:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

There has been talk on here about the asbestos being chrysotile, but I thought the new idea was not to distinguish the different types, but to treat them as being equally bad?

Also, when the tiles that may contain asbestos are taken off the roof batons, do they need to be bagged immediately (whilst still on the roof) or can they be bagged on the ground? Presumably immediately, so as not to spread the fine dust. So they eventually get to the ground and then are put into another larger bag with other individually bagged tiles.

Next, how many tiles will be removed from a typical roof? As you do this all the time, presumably you add these to a specialist asbestos skip (at your base) and removed to the local authority / sita controlled waste site when you have a large skip? I'm thinking it might be cheaper to dispose a big amount rather than small amounts?
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