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johnld  
#1 Posted : 11 December 2013 08:05:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnld

As I used to live on the East Coast I was interested in the effects on the area where I lived at that time

One report said that the sea had over topped a flood wall and flooded a plant room in a open air swimming pool. The sea water had started a reaction with the chemicals and formed a chlorine cloud fortunately no one lived in the immediate area.

http://www.essex-fire.gov.uk/incidents/22234/

I have to admit that this risk had never occurred to me as a possibility.
Food for thought???

John
JJ Prendergast  
#2 Posted : 11 December 2013 08:45:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

I would assume the sea water mixed with an acid. A well known reaction.

A fairly common experience/risk for the old U-boat crews.

However whether it would be deemed reasonably foreseeable to get sea water in your swimming pool plant room, in a modern day civilian context I would doubt.

Pretty sure the vast majoity of people wouldn't identify this on a rotine risk assessment for the said location.
David Bannister  
#3 Posted : 11 December 2013 10:37:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

I disagree. For any site that has the reasonably predictable chance of sea water inundation I would expect the risks from that possible event to be considered and assessed, and appropriate emergency plans to be formulated. In addition to any damage limitation and business continuity issues.
JJ Prendergast  
#4 Posted : 11 December 2013 11:13:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Opposing views are of course welcome.

I think the recent tidal surge was quoted as the worst for 60years.

Such events are considered in QRA assessments for the nuclear and petro-chemical industy.

Normally tackled in the initial design stages - when plant layout etc is decided.

Clearly we don't know much about the initial design/decision to build the swimming pool in the said location. Maybe being an open air pool, it uses sea water (after treatment) to fill the pool. In which case this would seem to be a major driver for the location of the swimming pool.

So on your routine CoSHH assessment of the plant room - you raise a recommendation for additional sea water flood protection? Costing how much?

If you were to undertake a QRA for this event - you would want to factor in the flood likelihood, the likelihood of occupancy of the plant room.

Also consider the expected operational life - typical design life is 25 - 40yrs.

Again, as per the recent fire works decision - are you taking hindsight into too much consideration?
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 11 December 2013 12:11:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

I agree with David in that such considerations are reasonably foreseeable - designers should consider these areas and let eventual users know about risk - however this is not usual practice in D2Day areas and it comes with a cost that nobody wants

additional D2Day users should pick such things up but again its down to quality and the competence of the risk manager + the politics of the MD etc.
peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 11 December 2013 12:43:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

On the assumption that the Essex Fire and Rescue incident report was accurate (a) the plant room had been protected from sea water ingress until flood defence wall breach and (b) there's no indication of a real risk to the public or others. So, IMHO, probably not reasonably practicable to have done more. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight need to make the flood defences stronger (not least having regard to flood risks being on the increase).
johnld  
#7 Posted : 11 December 2013 13:59:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnld

Peter

I know the area very well and I would say the report is accurate.

In the 50 years that I lived in the area the sea wall had never been overtopped.

If anyone is interested the pool location can be found at

http://tinyurl.com/pco9oac

The plant room in question is located at the south end of the pool

I posted the information as it was a risk I had never considered and also many may not have been aware of potential risks of sea water and chemicals mixing.

As you say Peter this is a risk that may and I stress may, need to be addressed given rising sea levels.


John

Mr.Flibble  
#8 Posted : 12 December 2013 15:15:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mr.Flibble

According to our insurance the company, our site sits on a flood plane (I checked the Environmental Agency Database, which backs this up) with a risk of every 1 in 100 years of it flooding (we are a little distance from the Thames) so I had to create a flood plan looking at defences etc just in case!!

I would have never considered what affects sea water can have when mixed with other chemicals! Learn something new every day! :)
ExDeeps  
#9 Posted : 12 December 2013 15:52:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

A quick thread hijack, JJ’s comment about U Boats at #2 has reminded me of an incident when a very young ExDeeps was feeling particularly ill on a surfaced nuclear submarine in the mid 1980s in what was one of the worst storms I have ever encountered. Sitting on the fore ends step waiting to die I became aware first that it was raining on 2 deck, followed by the realisation it can’t rain as it’s a submarine and someone was shouting about a flood and making the general alarm. Turns out that the lookout had got it horribly wrong and both hatches to the fin were open as the boat stuck its bow into a particularly big wave. Anyway, whilst all was going fizzy pop in the control room (sea water + electronic stuff) two decks down we were throwing just about anything we could around the battery hatch to keep the sea water out of the battery tank. Afterwards a mate told me what it was like being woken by the general alarm and jumping out of his bunk into several inches of very cold sea water in a darkened bunk space!…… Interesting times
JJ Prendergast  
#10 Posted : 12 December 2013 16:06:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Something similar happened to my brother on SSN S109 back in the 1980's - so he tells me.

Same incident?
ExDeeps  
#11 Posted : 12 December 2013 18:30:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
ExDeeps

JJ, similar incident, different boat
JJ Prendergast  
#12 Posted : 12 December 2013 19:25:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JJ Prendergast

Never had this sort of problem, but then again wearing a light blue suit was so much better .....

Weeks to get anywhere being a Puddle Pirate.
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