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Neil P  
#1 Posted : 18 December 2013 16:19:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Neil P

I noticed during an audit that a powered 110v scaffold hoist had not received a portable appliance test.


I contacted the hire company to discuss but I was told that, as the hire company did not supply the "source of power", that no PAT was required and that in the persons 13 years of experience, that I was the first person to suggest that a PAT for a scaffold hoist was required.


I would have thought that this fell into the normal PAT frequency of every 3 months given that it is portable and is used on a construction site.


Anyone had a similar experience?
Zimmy  
#2 Posted : 18 December 2013 19:03:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Temporary electrical installations on a site are tested every 3 months. As for 'normal' PAT frequency that's a new one on me :-)

Lifting gear is one thing and on some sites some as ask for PAT but that is due to a little over-the-top actions by some of our gang. You can PAT every day but to be honest, the best thing is for the user to be trained in basic electrical awareness on the tools they are using and to visually inspect them before and during use. If you can see the inner cores, the loose plug, the damaged cable, then perhaps the unit is best left alone and reported?

Use a RA to sort out formal inspection and testing times and, if think that 3 months test is required then off you go. But if you can get some good training sorted out (it really is easy to visually inspect electrical stuff just please don't poke about. Let the electricians do that bit). And on the subject of electricians , I'm not talking about the half-trained-five-week-wonders here.

Neil P  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2013 20:36:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Neil P

John M  
#4 Posted : 18 December 2013 21:18:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
John M

I would not rely one jot on the information contained in the document from the link above.

You really need to do better!

Jon
David Borland  
#5 Posted : 18 December 2013 21:48:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David Borland

Table of recommended frequency of test from verifiable source available here.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg107.pdf

As for the OP surely a salient point is that PAT is not in fact a regulatory requirement.....no lectures about ACOP's please.
Neil P  
#6 Posted : 19 December 2013 09:02:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Neil P

Good Morning,

I only posted the link to reference the table of frequencies, the source of which is stated as coming from the IEE Code of Practice. The table, with respect to construction sites, is pretty much the same as the one in the link posted by David published by the HSE.

I understand the legal requirements and the fact that PAT is not a regulatory requirement. But if not a PAT, what, other than a visual inspection can be undertaken? Surly, just like any other electrical item a PAT is suitable?

All I'm trying to establish is whether or not, forum users would expect the hire company to provide some certification, following a test (more than likely a PAT) to prove that the hoist is electrically safe and fit for use as I found their stance on the subject a little odd.

Apologies if my original post wasn't clear and thanks to those that have contributed.

Neil.
bluefingers  
#7 Posted : 19 December 2013 09:33:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bluefingers

If I was carrying out an audit on one of our sites and I came across a scaffold hoist, I would be more interested in seeing the LOLER certificate of thorough inspection, which should include an inspection of the electrical aspects of the hoist. Pat testing is a very grey area and it could be debated all day.
Neil P  
#8 Posted : 19 December 2013 09:43:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Neil P

Thanks Bluefingers.

LOLER RoTI was present & current but no mention of electrical testing.
Zimmy  
#9 Posted : 19 December 2013 19:55:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zimmy

Just a quick one. I'm talking from the point of view of a qualified electrician, electrical inspector and H&S whatsit but for the most part JIB Approved electrician. The supplier or hirer of the unit has to ensure the unit is safe to use and is tested etc. The user has to use it correctly and to stop using it if it is thought there is a problem.

(If anyone want to they can pop into any electrical wholesales and get a pack of PAT stickers with either PASS or FAIL (RED or GREEN) and stick them where they want. Fact of life).

The best plan is to have someone trained to spot the problems.

If the motor supply is 110V CTE it's a good start but if 230v then the RCD device is the place to start. That should be in the 3 Month test as a matter of course and if 230v and no rcd there..run
jarsmith83  
#10 Posted : 20 December 2013 13:59:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

I would like to throw my two pennies in and refer back to past experience (also ex electrician, elf an safety). You should refer to your rental agreement and look at the wording. If they're not supplying the equipment in a state that is fit for use then they may have broken their own rental agreement. Also, the supplier might be quite right in what they're saying TO SOME EXTENT. I used to install the temporary supplies to hoists and the supply side was the responsibility of the principal contractor (who instructed us carry out the works).
tony.  
#11 Posted : 20 December 2013 20:02:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tony.

Use a different hire company, they sound bargain basement
Is this a 110 volt but of kit or not?
.If its on long term hire, the hire company isnt going to enforce the 3 month test, of course with suitable risk assessment you could alter the 3 month period anyway.
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