Rank: Super forum user
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Jacobs has uploaded Kate's Story at http://www.youtube.com/jacobsworldwide
It tells the story of the fatality sustained by Kate's husband and the impact on her family etc.
Please share with you family, friends and colleagues.
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Rank: Super forum user
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That rates as one of the greatest lessons to be learnt by all of us and I applaud that brave Lady for having the strength of character to share it.
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It's people like Kate and Jen Deeney who have the courage and conviction to deliver such powerful and personal stories that make it somewhat easier to convince many of those who are less inclined to listen and realise it is not all about them, we all have someone who cares about us and are left to pick up the pieces. Here's hoping Kate's story has the desired effect.
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I also applaud the willingness to share this story.
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Victor - you were in an unusually good mood yesterday. "Excellent" instead of "I don't believe it"! Even before you would have had the chance to watch the video in full.
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Extremely poignant.
Peter, thanks for sharing this.
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Hi Peter -- it would be well worth putting this on the IOSH linked in board if you have not already done so
Was there an FAI / inquest? And if so what did non safety ( educated) people think of causation?
Kind regards
Bruce
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Rank: Super forum user
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I've given Kate some feedback........
"Thanks for spreading the word – really appreciate it!
Great to see good feedback – somehow Robbie and I seem to have made something that works which is amazing and a huge relief!
KT :-)"
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peter gotch wrote:Victor - you were in an unusually good mood yesterday. "Excellent" instead of "I don't believe it"! Even before you would have had the chance to watch the video in full.
Always in a good mood me Peter ;-) I've seen it only a few weeks back - excellent that it's been made freely available to all, as there were obvious Copyright issues originally that seem to have now been waved, all for the common good.
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What a tragic loss and you can’t but help feel for Kate, but at the start of the video it states its aim was to promote discussion, which we have not done. There have recently been quite a number of threads on this site discussing foreseeability. The video further along suggests you need to “Discuss what might go wrong and what things you might need to put in place to stop it happening”. Don’t get me wrong I do not disagree with this message. However would we really have foreseen the scenario that took place? I know we do not, as always have the details of this tragedy, but using the details we do have as a scenario, what would you have put in place if the thought process above had been done.
It talks about lone working, but would in this day and age we really have sent two people to measure a wall. Would you really have much more than a generic method for conducting this type of work? Would you (even if you knew about the power lines) have considered the issue with the tape measure? Which begs the question would you given what you know from the film, have put measures in place that may have prevented the tragedy? If so what?
I’m probably going to get shot down for this post, but this is meant to be a discussion forum. I would like to thank Kate for the courage to make the film and share thoughts and feelings which were obviously painful, and give my condolences for her loss.
Chris
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We should remember that the reason Victor is so happy is that he is dead after all - killed in a hit and run!!!!
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A really tragic case, my heart goes out to Kate, a very brave lady.
In response to Chris42's comments about foreseeability. I agree sometimes hindsight is a wonderful thing. Nevertheless, I am surprised that Kate's husband, an engineer, was not more aware of the potential risk from the Overhead Line Equipment (OLE). The benchmark for working within the OLE is 2.75m or 9ft. However things like metal ladders and tape measures are generally forbidden for obvious reasons. Hence in theory, the tragedy could have been averted, with a plastic tape measure.
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Rank: Super forum user
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RayRapp wrote:The benchmark for working within the OLE is 2.75m or 9ft. However things like metal ladders and tape measures are generally forbidden for obvious reasons. Hence in theory, the tragedy could have been averted, with a plastic tape measure.
Plastic or fibre tapes are pretty useless when working alone, however - they don't extend. I don't know anyone whose tape they keep kicking around in the car for quick checks of dimensions is a plastic one. I have a fibre tape, but the one that lives in the car boot is a metal one, and the two in my standard inspection toolkit are metal ones.
I suspect the point is that he didn't regard it as working at OHLE - he wasn't on or near the line, he was in a place the general public could go. It's not an incident about using the wrong tools for the identified job, it's about the mindset not identifying the hazards - not properly identifying what the job entailed. If he didn't notice it was working around OHLE, he wouldn't think about what tools are required when working around OHLE.
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I accept that plastic tape measures are not as useful as metal ones and one was probably not to hand. I did quantify my post by commenting 'Hence in theory...' alluding to the fact that theory does not always equate to practice.
I don't suppose we will ever know the victim's mindset at the time, which suggests he clearly did not appreciate the OLE hazard or the task he was undertaking. On the one hand this is understandable from someone not familiar with railways and OLE, on the other, he was an engineer with some previous experience of this type of work.
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I think you are correct that he probably didn’t know about or at least appreciate the OLE, and it was the other side of a wall after all. Fibre tapes generally require two people as you have to tension them in order to get an accurate reading, so yes in theory as you say, but I don’t feel even now two people would be sent. Even if discussing it would you think to warn “do not put the extended metal tape on top of the wall”. The video suggests that a full survey had been done (one could assume it picked up on the OLE, if work was going to be carried out in this area), So I would think he knew of the OLE. However knowing of the hazard and linking it to a foreseeable and appreciable risk, is another thing. All the slices of Swiss cheese lined up on that particular day. His natural reflexes took over when the tape moved, he probably could not help himself, but to try and catch the tape worth peanuts.
If there had been a review of this small insignificant task, it might have been picked up, but do we review our working lives that closely and in that much detail. If we did would we ever get anything done. Two people to do the task one could do, yes there would have been someone to hold the tape while the other recorded, or even to get help once the incident took place. A different tape perhaps, but realistically the metal tapes are used predominately to do this (and anyway the danger is the other side of the wall). As Kate notes you should not die measuring a wall.
The thing is that if this story is used to try and influence people in our own workplace, will the message just be lost or even work the wrong way. If realistically you would not actually do anything differently, then this could be a bad example to use. Could you come out of it looking like you are not practical?
Chris
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Chris
I can't disagree with anything you have written. Indeed, the task could have been carried out hundreds if not tens of thousands of times without incident. So I wonder what exactly has been learnt from this tragedy? Of course there is an argument that it was an unplanned activity, blah, blah. Notwithstanding, is it a case that sometimes things happen which are not unforeseeable but improbable?
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Tragic as it is, it is an accident in the truest sense for me. A sequence of events that would never have been considered in a million years. Or at least would have been described as patronising and OTT OSH advice or control.
So is there a message for those outside Jacobs? Well I guess it is about recognising that we should all try to remember that
..danger lurks in unexpected places just as frequently as in those we know.
..simple jobs can be just as dangerous as complex ones.
..where formal written procedures require cross checks etc then it as well to always follow them as it gives an opportunity for that extra little word or check and that may save your life one day.
.. in such jobs (constantly variable situations) we keep ourselves safe and we must never ever forget that however simple it all seems.
Finally it seems most unlikely to me that work adjacent to OHLE would have been recognised as relevant in these circumstances. The work area was on the public side of the bridge and if the assumptions made by Jacobs are correct then the work method would not have anticipated any possible contact. Hence the headline to the story?
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Rank: Super forum user
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'We' have just shared this video with the staff on their first day back at work.
As Jan and Feb are historically bad for us in terms of accident performance I wanted something new to kick the year off. So we stopped people from starting work until we had watched the video and had a brief discussion. The main reason I wanted to share this very powerful video and the message that it delivers is the last 5 minutes or so where Kate talks about teamwork and looking out for each other. This is something that I am pushing hard as we as safety pro's cannot 'do the H&S' it has to come from all members of the team.
Just got the late shift to do now.
Thanks to Kate and to Jacobs for making this video available and thank you for the link.
Happy New Year
Stu
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Rank: Super forum user
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Good to see some debate.
Edited quote from report on inquest.
"Coroner Richard Hulett was concerned by the fact that the "site specific method statement" contained no mention of the risk from the power lines below.
However, emails confirmed the engineer was aware of the risk from the lines"
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Rank: Super forum user
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Quote from comment on IIRSM Linkedin Group - I'd not found this report previously
"As a safety practitioner, I felt that the video did leave some unanswered questions. I wonder if it did with others who viewed it? I found a report from a local newspaper at the time may fill in some of the gaps and help provide answers.
The report can be found at:
http://www.leightonbuzza...y-near-leighton-1-997858 "
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kate interviewed about Kate's Story at
If you don't like spiders, start at about 6.10
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I wonder if it is acceptable to utilise this video in some management training I am developing. Its a very powerfull story imho.
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Hi Peter
Thanks for the Leighton Buzzard link - interesting.
I recently discussed this incident with our OLE Manager who was unaware of it. Thinking outside the box, I am surprised that there is no sign on the bridge warning of OLE underneath and, the OLE is not protected in some way by say shroud. It's not inconceivable that someone without the wherewithal could drop accidentally a fishing line/hook whilst walking over the bridge with similar deadly consequences.
Ray
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Ken
Thanks for posting the link.
Gary
Of course, that's what Kate wants and why it's been put on YouTube.
Ray, the relevant Railway Group Standard indicates that the parapet should be high enough to mean that an accident of the type you suggest should not be possible without a deliberate act such as the angler casting their rod (i.e. not an accident)
P
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