Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
decimomal  
#1 Posted : 06 January 2014 15:13:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

At the risk of opening a can of worms! Has anybody experience of these shemes please, and if so cam you advise on the potential liability aspects in the event of an employee being injured and with the employer actually owning the bicycle? I am thinking about such tghings as PUWER, maintenance, inspection etc, and information, instruction (training?), provision of cycle helmets etc. Many thanks in anticipation.
jontyjohnston  
#2 Posted : 06 January 2014 15:21:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jontyjohnston

Hi there We have been running a scheme for 4 years now in Dublin, came up as an environmental issue. We have, weather permitting (!), 34% of staff cycling to work and some using company bikes for work during the day. Never had a problem, been very well received by staff. If you want some details PM with your email and I will forward some details.
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 06 January 2014 15:41:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Of course you recall that the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 Section 69 stopped people suing for breach of statutory duty under H&S regulations. This means that case law like Stark v Post Office no longer applies, so no strict liability.
achrn  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2014 16:37:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

We operate teh scheme, but relatively few people take it up. Actually providing good places to lock up bikes and a changing room with a shower seems to have a bigger influence than providing cheap bikes. People on our scheme sign a form that has various stuff on it (including, for example, they are responsible for insuring it and will still need to pay the salary sacrifice if it gets nicked), one of those items is that they will maintain it in good mechanical condition and will comply with the law when riding it. We recommend that they buy a helmet, and the cost of helmet, hi-vi and lights bought at the same time as the bike can all be put on the salary sacrifice. (Note, the helmet recommendation is contrary to my own opinion, but that is company policy as it stands.) Regarding training we don't say anything, though I've often thought that recommending training would be more use than recommending PPE not designed for the hazard...
bob youel  
#5 Posted : 07 January 2014 08:56:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

There are 2 different things here 1: Using such equipment for work purposes so all the employer duty laws apply here 2: Using such equipment for one's own pleasure /convenience so all the employer duty laws do not apply here; - and both are addressed differently
MadiB  
#6 Posted : 07 January 2014 09:25:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MadiB

My understanding of the cycle scheme we run here is that the company hasnt provided the bike as the employee is paying for it and the company has only "loaned" the money to pay for it upfront and the agreement signed is similar to an "HP" agreement. 50% of the time in use is supposed to be for comuting in order to qualify. If the company were to "sub" you the money to buy a car they wouldnt have a liability would they. Different, however, if they have given you a bike/car to do your job.
achrn  
#7 Posted : 07 January 2014 10:36:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Madib wrote:
My understanding of the cycle scheme we run here is that the company hasnt provided the bike as the employee is paying for it and the company has only "loaned" the money to pay for it upfront and the agreement signed is similar to an "HP" agreement.
Don't tell the tax man that - that's not how it works. It explicitly DOES NOT work if it's a HP agreement - if it's HP then income tax is due on all the repayments. The employee benefits by not paying income tax or VAT on the purchase price. That only works if the employee does not buy the bike, but rather the employer buys the bike, and retains ownership of the bike, and is only providing the bike for the use of the employee. At some point in time, the company can dispose of the bike (eg, by giving it to the employee) but that disposal must be accounted for as per disposal of any other company equipment, so needs to be done at a point when the equipment has negligible value, if a tax charge is to be avoided. Fortunately, by the time a bike is three years old, the taxman will accept it has negligible value. In any other combination, it's a benefit in kind and taxable at the same rate as ordinary pay, on the full purchase price of the bike. For example, if the company actually lent you money to buy a bike, that would be a taxable benefit. You'd then need to pay VAT when you used that money to buy the bike - zero benefit to you. The tax saving is only that providing free use of a bike is a non-taxable benefit, provided the bike is used for commuting to work.
Madib wrote:
50% of the time in use is supposed to be for comuting in order to qualify.
The 50% is no longer required, and it was a guideline 50% of the use of the bike for commuting OR 50% of the commuting done by the bike. I don't think it was ever tested in court.
Madib wrote:
If the company were to "sub" you the money to buy a car they wouldnt have a liability would they.
The employee would have a tax liability, yes. The company would have to account for it in their accounts and pay tax accordingly.
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 07 January 2014 13:28:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I thought such schemes were 'salary sacrifice'. In brief ours works like this: Employee chooses a bike (and accessories) and orders it The employer pays the 'up front' cost and then effectively leases the bike to the employee who pay through 'salary sacrifice' over 12 months (i.e. they pay before the deduction of NI/PAYE) After a year the employee (owner) can hand the bike back or continue with the 'lease' over a further 3 year period for a nominal fee through the cycle scheme (rather than the employer) http://www.cyclescheme.c.../employers/employer-faqs I can't help but think that you could be looking for a problem that probably doesn't exist. We have been operating this for years, and the issue of liability, PUWER, maintenance (by the employer) etc etc etc hasn't arisen and I don't realistically expect it to.
MadiB  
#9 Posted : 07 January 2014 15:15:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MadiB

I stand corrected on the tax/financial side achrn, but my point was that the company isnt really providing the equipment just the means of acquiring it and it is being used for personal non-work purposes and therefore doesnt really give the employer any H&S liability. And I concur with you that there isnt really an issue to answer, unless of course the business is Arkwright and a delivery bike is the vehicle in question! Mind you I think that that till would raise some issues under PUWER!
decimomal  
#10 Posted : 08 January 2014 09:28:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thank you for the replies, much appreciated.
Users browsing this topic
Guest (3)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.