Rank: New forum user 
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I have recently started work for a Road Maintenance company. In the past there has been an issue with double shifting which I have been asked to prevent.
The majority of the operatives drive vehicles (transits and modified boiler lorries) to / from site as well as using the vehicles once on site.
Our operatives have signed out of the 48hr working week so I can't use the working time directive. The lorries are road plant and not HGV so Tacho rules don't apply.
The UK Domestic rules for the drivers explains no more than driving 10 hours and a max of 11 hours working (duty) time.
I know that the exemption to the Domestic Rules are:
• you don’t drive on the public road, eg if you drive as part of work in road maintenance, quarrying, construction work, civil engineering works
• you drive for less than 4 hours in any day
Below is a typical worked example of two shifts within a 24hr period:
Start of Shift End shift Start shift End shift Total hours
0730hrs 1400hrs 2100hrs 0130hrs 13hours
Hours Travelling 2Hours Travelling 2hrs 30mins 4hrs 30mins
The operative had 10hours rest after this shift.
So my question is if we agree that we are exempt from the Domestic Rules as Construction / Civil Engineering what should our total working hours (duty time) be in any one 24hr period??
Can any one offer any advice???
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Richard
May I suggest that along with all the other stuff that you are probably already aware of [and others will tell you anyway] you should have a good read through the new documents on the HSE website that relate to fatigue.
Incidentally, I didn't know that you could totally opt-out of the WTR, either as an employer or employee. I'm going to check that one.
Frank Hallett
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Even though they have signed the opt out - some (quite a lot actually) of the WTD still applies so don't ignore it.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Might Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations apply?
If the guys are tired then they are more likely to pose a risk to themselves and others and the employer has a duty to manage that risk.
So it could be down to your risk assessment.
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Rank: New forum user
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Many thanks for the input gents, I will carry on digging through.
Regards
Richard
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Super forum user 
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John, am I reading your post right? You seem to be saying that the working time regs don't apply to night workers! If so; I suggest otherwise.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Canopener wrote:John, am I reading your post right? You seem to be saying that the working time regs don't apply to night workers! If so; I suggest otherwise. You may well suggest otherwise, and you would be right! I´ll re-phrase it. A night worker cannot opt-out of the night work limit average of 8 hours on night work every 24 hours, and since they MUST take 2 days off in every fortnight and are restricted to 8-hours average in every 24-hours, they will average 48-hours a week over time... Then there is the averaged over 17 weeks, or 52 by agreement. So I suppose they could work 54 for half the time and 40 the other half. Holidays makes for more complications. You´ll pardon me. I threw the book out when I retired!! I never signed it anyway. Most managers don´t understand it, or even care that they don´t.
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Rank: Super forum user
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why is the isue of double shifting causing problems as I see that as one of the core questions - they appear to be wanting to use H&S to lower wages against using proper management to lower wages- just a thought
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Rank: Super forum user
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There are several things that interest me.
This, for one:
¨The lorries are road plant and not HGV so Tacho rules don't apply¨
Well, if drivers hours matter to even vans under 3.5T, some must surely matter to even the usual ¨small truck with a brush stuck in the bolster¨.
Maybe not tacho rules, but DRIVING HOURS.
Have they licences to drive the trucks, after all, since 1997 a basic car licence only covers vehicles up to 3.5T and without trailers.
Are they ¨self employed¨? (even the false self employment engaged in by so many road maintenance companies). Well, even the drivers hours with them would matter, but would the companies road insurance and employers liability cover them?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Oh, and believe me, if there is a RTA featuring those vehicle the police will be all over records of same. Even to the extent of checking roadside camera data backwards along the route.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Richard, something more fundamental strikes me. Although you don't say explicitly that the workers are your employees, it appears from your post to be the case, If so, then the answer is surely quite simple and straightforward; you set the rules including the working hours and arrangements.
If on the other hand they are contractors, sub contractors or self employed then the answer may (or may not) lie in your contractual arrangements or at least could do in the future.
Of course signing an opt out for the 48 hours, doesn't give either employees or employers 'carte blanche' to work whatever hours they like; other H&S will apply. Depending on the 'relationship' between you/your employer and the workers, and while neither are quite as specific as WTR, you might also draw on the duties under MHSWR in relation to RA and HASAWA, in particular you might want to read up on the prosecution of Produce Connection, which may have some relevance.
Good luck.
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