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Nigel  
#1 Posted : 21 January 2014 15:54:20(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nigel

Before I go and spend a small fortune on BS5839-1 2013, does anyone know if you need to be certified or accredited to install a fire alarm in business premises? If you do, I will not get the standard and have a certified company fir the alarm. If not, we can purchase standard and the alarm components and fit it ourselves, with our in house electrician.
Frank Hallett  
#2 Posted : 21 January 2014 15:55:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

How do your insurers feel about it Nigel?

Frank Hallett
Nigel  
#3 Posted : 21 January 2014 16:01:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nigel

This comes from a visit from the local fire officer. He has suggested we update our current system, as it doesn't meet the current standard, (bearing in mind it was fitted in 1985). Our insurance company have not indicated it's a problem to them.

Nigel
Frank Hallett  
#4 Posted : 21 January 2014 16:17:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

OK Nigel - so it's a verbal recommendation following a FS "goodwill" visit then?

You don't identify what sort of premises nor business, so:-

Revisit your FRA and ensure that it is "suitable and sufficient". If your Fire competent person says it's OK, note the advice and incorporate it in future plans. If not, give consideration to upgrading now.

There is no legal restriction on you fitting your own Fire Alarm within the UK that I'm aware of; but you should get an opinion from your premises & fire insurers as to how they feel about it and whether you doing it in-house will affect the cover or premium.

However, if my assumption above is incorrect, there is something else that you haven't shared with us, or which only comes to light once you get your FRA reviewed; you'll have to do something more.

Frank Hallett

mssy  
#5 Posted : 21 January 2014 23:18:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Frank Hallett wrote:


There is no legal restriction on you fitting your own Fire Alarm within the UK that I'm aware of;


Fire & Rescue Authorities (and other enforcers of the RRO) no pretty much demand compliance with BS5839-1 as the norm. Therefore a good knowledge of the BS and the necessary training and experience is required before anyone should attempt an AFD installation.

The BS covers a huge range of areas regarding the design, installation and commissioning of systems, and if an engineer gets it wrong, he is liable to be treated & prosecuted as the 'Responsible Person' under Article 5(3) or 5(4).

Let's not forget Christopher Morris, an electrician and part-time firefighter from the GMC area who was fined £11,000 and received a criminal record in 2011 after failing to install and maintain a fire alarm system properly (ie to BS5839-1).

My advice is unless you are 100% competent in the area of AFD installation, don't touch it!

http://networkwithbifm.o...a-successfully-prosecute
Frank Hallett  
#6 Posted : 22 January 2014 08:45:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Frank Hallett

Good morning all

Hi msssy - you make a good point about the potential consequences of failing to install to a suitable standard by an external provider; and of course the same principle would be used for internal fitting in similar circumstances.

Also, I cannot disagree with your comment on being competent.

My point is that despite the Fire Services quoting BS???? as a recommendation and citing it as "best practice" when bringing an enforcement action - it has no legal requirement nor exclusivity for using Standards within the UK at this time in this instance. A workplace controller has the option of selecting the standard that they wish [or none at all] and then proving to the enforcer that it is acceptable in the same way as choosing between Building Regs App Doc B and BS 9999.

That means that no enforcer would be able to require compliance to a BS/BSEN for Fire Alarms until after having gone to court and gained a favourable verdict on that case.

Unless we have further info from Nigel on this we cannot provide anything other than general responses to the actual info provided.

Frank Hallett
johnld  
#7 Posted : 22 January 2014 09:55:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnld

Nigel

We used accredited company to design and maintain all of our many fire alarm systems.

However the actual installation was put out to competitive tender and then overseen and commissioned by the accredited company.

This we found reduced installation costs significantly.

So perhaps another route for you to explore?
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