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John S  
#1 Posted : 20 March 2014 09:04:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John S

Over the next few months we have offices being refurbished over three floor on one side of the main staircase on each level there are double fire doors complete with a vision panel in the RH door on each set. During the work phase the contactor has been instructed to obscure the vision panel so the works cannot be seen. Can you point me to the specific regulation/clause that would provide me with the evidence to stop this.
firesafety101  
#2 Posted : 20 March 2014 10:12:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

In my opinion, for what its worth, vision panels are there for people to see through before opening the door into someone who may be on the other side. Further, why do the contractors not want people to see through to their site? Do they have something to hide perhaps? Is it in their scope of works? According to a recent thread on this forum you can simply apply wallpaper to the fire doors, but you do need to ensure they are still recognisable as fire doors. If you can source Class One fire rated wallpaper all the better. Glass used in fire doors need to be fire rated and there is a company out there that supplies glass in their Pyro range. No association with them at all. I now feel an interesting discussion coming on.
John S  
#3 Posted : 20 March 2014 11:03:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John S

The requirement is from the business not the contractor and the doors are fire rated as is the glass. Do you know if there is anything in the building regs, fire regulation that requires vision panels for reasons of safety other than avoiding colliding with someone on the other side?
Granlund40055  
#4 Posted : 20 March 2014 11:16:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Granlund40055

Building regs Approved doc B provides information on when vision panels are required. http://www.planningporta...br/BR_PDF_AD_B2_2010.pdf There are two reasons why you may require a vision panel. 1. To see if there is a fire on the other side, or 2. as stated above – to see if there is anyone on the other side before you open the door. So this could be in the walls or door of an inner room to enable occupants of the inner room to see if a fire has started in the outer room (not required if there is automatic fire detection in place or enclosure is fire stopped) Vision panels are needed where doors on escape routes subdivide corridors or where doors are hung to swing both ways. There are also requirements for vision panels in Approved document M Access to and Use of buildings which may also be relevant.
firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 20 March 2014 15:03:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

If the vision panels were fitted as part of a requirement the business would have to re-assess the use of the doors to ensure safety if the vision panels were covered. There will be a review of the fire risk assessment anyway - won't there? This should take in the fire doors and change of use of part of the premises where the contractors are working. Remember the contractors will also be obliged to provide a fire risk assessment for their part of the premises and both fra's should be reviewed by both parties together.
Psycho  
#6 Posted : 20 March 2014 15:51:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

you could always keep the vision panal but cover it with an opaque film so you can see if someone is behind it but cant see into the room this is what they use on some hospital wards so you can see if someone is at the other side but you cant look into the ward
wstuarth  
#7 Posted : 21 March 2014 13:12:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wstuarth

Regulation 18 of the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regualtions may well give you what you are looking for (including ACOP and Guidance information) The design and operation of the door may affect the way this advice applies Stuart
mssy  
#8 Posted : 21 March 2014 22:49:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

There is nothing in any fire legislation across the uk that requires that VP's are kept clear, although there is plenty of guidance to that effect. If your business requires the VPs to be obscured during the works, then risk assess the issue on a door by door basis and introduce control measures as required Maybe introduce staff (and contractors) training and/or instruction, the use of signage, or perhaps organising the works in small phases where minimal numbers of VPs will need to be obscured at any one time. To me, a temporary obscuring of the VPs in a low risk environment may not be especially challenging as long as the RA, control measures and processes are communicated and recorded effectively
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