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Safety butterfly		#1 Posted : 28 March 2014 15:24:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Hi All, Does any one have a risk assessment that you could share, for the use of a cage attachement. I am trying to get my company to stop using it and purchase correct MEWP. I have discussed PUWER, LOLER and work at height regulations untill im blue in the face. The engineering team here are set in their ways and dont seam to understand where the regs say "MUST" then we must comply. Thanks
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redken		#2 Posted : 28 March 2014 15:37:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		if you have not already done so, try this: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/pm28.htm
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safetydude1957		#3 Posted : 28 March 2014 15:41:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		What are they using it for ? I suggest you first read HSE Guidance Note PM28 (Fourth edition) carry out your own R/A and then take it back to you engineering team if you still require assistance drop me a line at hands@hallamplastics.co.uk
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Safety butterfly		#4 Posted : 28 March 2014 15:45:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Hi Redken, Thanks for this, I had a copy of the 3rd edition. This will make some interesting weekend reading. Sam
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Safety butterfly		#5 Posted : 28 March 2014 15:54:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I have just printed the fourth edition, I have enough information and knowledge to carryout a risk assessment, which i will do first thing monday morning. the opening line of the 3rd edition, says,"following the guidence is not compulsary and you are free to take other action" which thay are arguing over. I cant make them see that what they do still has to be proved to be as safe as the guidence. Wish me luck !!
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JohnW		#6 Posted : 28 March 2014 16:28:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Safety Butterfly wrote: the opening line of the 3rd edition, says,"following the guidence is not compulsary and you are free to take other action" which thay are arguing over. The last paragraph of 4th edition also says that. So, you are writing a risk assessment so that they WON'T use a cage?? My main customer has used one for years, in fact they MADE their cage, with a spring gate, toeboards, mesh, and painted it yellow. Chain it to the FLT, wear harnesses, communicate well with the driver. It's really useful for maintenance of ceiling lights and space heaters. John
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Safety butterfly		#7 Posted : 30 March 2014 22:09:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Although we do not currently have a risk assessment for the use of a cage.I will do one anyway. What are the general rules for this. I was under the impression that we should be moving away from using cages and using MEWP which is more suitable for working at height?? What do other companies do?? I would apprciate some expert advice please. Sam.
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JJ Prendergast		#8 Posted : 31 March 2014 08:39:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Whats the issue about using a correctly designed and engineered cage, secured to the FLT. Ideal for short term work. Looks like another justification for 'elf and safety' to ban something because of a personal dislike, rather than rational assessment.
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Safety butterfly		#9 Posted : 31 March 2014 08:57:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		I understand this looks like a personal dislike, I can assure you it is not. Perhaps I have miss understood what the regulations say. I am happy for the engineering teams to use it as long as it is the right thing to do. We do not us the cage on a regular basis, it is inspected regulary, shows its SWL, passed by the insurance,toe boards and non slip floor, ect. We have harnesses and lanyards also inspected, so providing everything is managed correctly....... am I ok to let the guys continue to use it for planned maintenance jobs ??? advice please thanks again Sam.
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David Bannister		#10 Posted : 31 March 2014 11:02:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Sam, the intro to PM28 (4th Ed) clearly states "exceptional circumstances only" and the guidance then goes on to say that planned maintenance is not exceptional. Most liability insurers will advise very strongly against the use of these cages.
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David Bannister		#11 Posted : 31 March 2014 11:04:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		PS. Sam you have asked for expert advice. HSE can perhaps still be considered experts.
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Safety butterfly		#12 Posted : 31 March 2014 11:26:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Thank you David, This is my opinion too, however it seams as though I am being a "jobs worth" by asking the engineering team not to use the cage because we do not have a current risk assessment. I am new to my current company and the engineering team are not used to being challenged with issues like this. All I want is for them to be safe and do the right thing. I have been told that there is no money available for MEWP in this years budget. I have stood firm and asked them not to use it untill I have claer guidence. Am I being a jobs worth ?? Sam
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kevkel		#13 Posted : 31 March 2014 11:42:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		I had the same issue with one of our departments looking to buy one. If you look at the accident statistics with regards forklift cages compared to MEWP you will get your message accross. Its what I had to do. Turned out that it was easier and less expensive to outsource the maintenance task. There needs to be very strict controls when using these. I could not justifty there use on site. Kevin
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Safety butterfly		#14 Posted : 31 March 2014 11:54:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		as cost is an issue, this s a good piece of advice, thanks kevkel. Sam
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Kate.		#15 Posted : 01 April 2014 11:43:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		No budget to buy a MEWP? You can hire a MEWP by the day.
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roshqse		#16 Posted : 01 April 2014 13:43:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Stand firm Sam. You are new and they don't like it. But it's your job AND responsibility. You're a new face and they are stuck in their ways. I had same problem when I joined my place. Old hands didn't like the new face implementing , and enforcing, safe working practices. They battled me all the way until it started to sink in...but I had to 'face down' a couple of them, and I'm a 6 foot ex fireman!
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JJ Prendergast		#17 Posted : 01 April 2014 14:37:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Do what your 'un-biased' risk assessment says, after a proper consideration of the tasks, frequency of work, duration of work, suitability of a FLT cage. Don't write a risk assessment simply to make you feel better and to give the answer that you want. Not so sure you can write an unbiased risk assessment though. I agree you should complete a risk assessment, as the very original post says you haven't undertaken a risk assessment.
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roshqse		#18 Posted : 01 April 2014 16:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user		Cages are not for routine use. I certainly wouldn't allow them. Not because they can't be made secure, chained to the FLT , inspected etc. It's because the FLT is the problem. The cage man has NO control over the FLT. If he were to fall and be attached to the cage by a lanyard the FLT would go over. It's not the cage that's a problem, it's the FLT being used in this manner.
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JJ Prendergast		#19 Posted : 01 April 2014 17:09:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user		Agree about cages aren't for routine use, follow the guidance, given at #2 though Base the actions on facts, though - not the answer that the poster would like to have.
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