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jarsmith83  
#1 Posted : 23 April 2014 11:54:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jarsmith83

Hi All

I have a problem (you're probably thinking don't we all)....

We are just about to take on someone on work experience. I have researched the criteria, legal etc, and found this piece of information form the working time regulations:

• Working time regulations specifically with regards to young persons to be adhered to, maximum of 8 hours daily, no weekend work is permitted.
• Working time regulations specifically with regards to those under minimum school leaving age (MSLA) to be adhered to – See below for details:
• During Term Time - Children can work up to 12 hours a week within the restrictions below:
• On a school day - Children can work for a maximum of two hours (not within school hours) either one hour before school and/or one after school, or two hours after school.
• At Weekends - Children aged 13-14 can work up 5 hours on a Saturday, Children aged 15-16 can work up to 8 hours on a Saturday, Children of compulsory school age can work for two hours on a Sunday

Can anyone clarify if the above is applicable those doing work experience, and if so, how? It seems to me that I should be restricting work duties to 2hrs daily if this is used as guidnace however, as the young person is doing this as part of their "education" then is this disregarded, and school hours followed?

Many thanks in advance for any help.....
Kate.  
#2 Posted : 23 April 2014 12:44:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Kate.

The two hours refers to work being done in addition to going to school that day (that's why it says "not within school hours").

If they are with you doing work experience then presumably they don't also go to school that day and so it doesn't apply.
JOL3003  
#3 Posted : 23 April 2014 13:00:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JOL3003

We generally inform employers to treat Work Experience students as young employees.

Kate is correct, Students are only allowed to work for 2 hours in addition to a day within school, brining the total to 8 hours.

The work experience replaces 'On a School day' in bullet point 4.

As long as you stick to the 8 hour rule Monday - Saturday and 2 hours on a Sunday, you will comply with the regulations.
bob thompson  
#4 Posted : 23 April 2014 13:40:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bob thompson

Yes it its classed as a curriculum activity whilst on work expierience and will be treated as employees of the company for the duration, provided that they are within their final year of full time education, if not they cant legally undertake work expierience. A lot of LEAs get round this with younger students by calling it work shadowing. just be carefull of this distinction as work shadowing will not be covered by the employers insurance, nor will it be covered by the schools insurance unless they are supervised at all time by a member of school staff.
teh_boy  
#5 Posted : 23 April 2014 13:51:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
teh_boy

bob thompson wrote:
Yes it its classed as a curriculum activity whilst on work expierience and will be treated as employees of the company for the duration,


That's interesting - I would have though that much like agency staff, the employer would be the school. Although from a legal view point the employer has control of the student I would have thought of them as non-employees and so only subject to section 3...

You learn something new everyday :)
bob thompson  
#6 Posted : 23 April 2014 13:57:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bob thompson

I used to work exclusively in the field of work expierience as part of a team set up to vet placements prior to students being placed there. I was a key stakeholder on the consulatative document for hsc and dfee ( now im showing my age) on the protection of young workers legislation in 1994. we had this issue in Nottinghamshire and nearly fell foul a couple of times with people trying to circumvent the system. its all down to legal status of the placement.
pete48  
#7 Posted : 23 April 2014 18:08:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Bob, didn't you mean to say "only students in their last two years of compulsory schooling, or students taking post-16 courses, are eligible" ?

Students from year 10 and year 11 commonly attend work experience. There is a simple way to look at it for those not regularly involved with providing placements. The relevant Acts and Regulations effectively allow children to attend a workplace as if they were 'employed as a young person' and not as a schoolchild. All subject to s&s risk assessment by the provider, of course ;-)

There are separate rules for children employed (paid) and these are the restrictive ones mentioned by the O.P.

p48
Ian A-H  
#8 Posted : 23 April 2014 19:50:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ian  A-H

Surely these young people are being EDUCATED, they are not at WORK. Therefore, WORKING time directives don't apply...

And as far as H&S legislation is concerned, the HSE have stated their position on work experience: http://www.hse.gov.uk/youngpeople/workexperience/.

When my daughter did her work experience in a vets she "worked" normal school hours, as she would have done had she been at school.
pete48  
#9 Posted : 23 April 2014 22:57:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

It is very easy to misunderstand or misinterpret this activity. It is part of their education but they are 'at work'.

As far as I am aware the provisions of the The Health and Safety (Training for Employment) Regulations 1990 are still in force and apply to work experience students.

The HSE guidance that you reference confirms this when it states 'Your existing employers' liability insurance policy will cover work placements'. Why would they refer to ELI if the students are not considered to have the status of employee?

Students don't have to work a full day and indeed many do just as your daughter did. However, she, even if younger than minimum school leaving age, could have worked the hours allowed by the WTD for Young Persons if it had suited all concerned.

As I said earlier the rules for employment of children beyond relevant training is a completely different area usually enforced by the Local Authority and bye laws.

It is very easy to confuse these two quite separate activities.

p48
Maroc  
#10 Posted : 24 April 2014 07:18:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Maroc

Hi,
contact the local authority for the school where the work experience kid is from, they have safety employees that can give you all of the details that you will require. They will visit and help you with your risk assessment. We take on work experience kids and a representative from the local authority visits.
Maroc
Phil Grace  
#11 Posted : 24 April 2014 08:17:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Phil Grace

Bob,
You stated that work experience students "...will not be covered by the employers insurance, nor will it be covered by the schools insurance..."

Being pedantic, employees etc are not covered under the employers insurance. It is the employer who is covered. The injured person - for that is what we are talking about - is entitled to claim following injury or accident. It is just the matter of which of the employers policies they claim against.

I would say that a student undertaking work experience - under whatever arrangements people wish to describe it as - would be covered as follows:

1) Student is regarded as an employee and thus any claim they made would be regarded as one to be dealt with under the Employers' Liability insurance
OR
2) Student is regarded as NOT being an employee and is thus a third party and any claim against the employer's would be dealt with under the Public Liability policy.

Phil
Graham Bullough  
#12 Posted : 24 April 2014 14:16:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

It may be useful to add that scope exists for year 11 pupils (i.e. in their final year of compulsory education) in England and Wales to have extended work experience rather than the usual 2 weeks. This enables pupils, usually with minimal academic inclination/ability to pass GCSE exams, to spend much longer, say 6 months, in work experience if their schools, parents/guardians and prospective work experience provider/s are agreeable.

Thus, for example, a pupil intent on becoming a vehicle mechanic could usefully gain work experience at a garage subject, of course, to appropriate measures such as effective instruction and supervision being provided.

In some cases the pupils who opt for extended work experience are ones who have been disruptive at school, e.g. because of a mismatch between their abilities/inclinations and the school education system/environment. Thus, if they effectively leave school earlier than their fellow pupils, they can benefit because they're getting practical experience and learning in a new environment of their choice. Furthermore, their teachers plus fellow pupils concentrating on studying for and taking GCSE exams benefit from the reduced disruption. Therefore, extended work experience, if properly organised, can be a win-win arrangement for everybody.

Though some of the above points might appear to malign pupils on extended work experience, they're surely a reflection of reality, based partly on what I used to hear from teachers and others involved in organising, vetting and monitoring placements. This includes cases where notably disruptive pupils with low motivation have been greatly changed by extended work experience, and moreover went on to gain good qualifications through vocational courses. Horses for courses as they say!

As several years have elapsed since I had any involvement with people dealing with placements, my above understanding about extended work experience might well be incorrect or out of date. Therefore, if anyone can confirm, refute or update the above summary, please do so.
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