Rank: Super forum user 
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Hi All
Can anyone give me advice on the going rate to charge for RAMS. The RAMS I am producing is about 7-8 pages
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Rank: Super forum user 
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How about your hourly rate?
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Rank: Super forum user
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FireSafety 101
What is the going hourly rate I was thinking of £25 a hour is that the going rate
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Safety Man 1,
I don't know what your overheads are, but, a plumber would be charging around £25 per hour plus, so I would say it should be higher than that.
I know what my company charges per hour and it's more than that!
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Rank: Super forum user
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One always has to go by the time taken and I have to say for a chartered person a charge of less than 60-100 per hour as a consultant is around the bottom end but it does also depend on your business model and client base. For some clients before I retired I charged out around 200 per hour, or 1000 per day.
You must look at your own charging structure
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Man
Listen to the posts herein as its very good advice and I note that there must be some cheap plumbers about at ~ £25.00 per hour?!
I do not doubt your competence with regards to occupational health and safety but I would re-evaluate your business model and business risk profile noting that should somebody follow your RAMS (Personally I do not like the term RAMS as I would not join such areas directly together) and something happened you and your business may be held liable!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Please put me in contact with the plumber who only charges 25/hr!!
The last time I called a plumber - about 2yrs ago, I got charged £65/hr - and thats in the north east of the UK.
Why do h&s people value their work/charge rates so low?
SUggest a bit of market research is required, look at recruitment websites for the rates paid by them, to safety contractors.
I think boblewis is in the right area
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Man 1
I do RA/MS for some contractors and keep it reasonable because they keep coming back for more.
As Bob says split them into RA and MS because they are different.
Depending on the size of the job I usually charge £150.00 for about two hours work.
This I believe is reasonable because it is all at the PC and I have the templates.
What suits me may not suit anyone else?
I wish I had the courage to charge £1000.00 but I suspect the contractor would be off like a shot to find somebody else?
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Rank: Super forum user
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FireSafety101 wrote:
I wish I had the courage to charge £1000.00 but I suspect the contractor would be off like a shot to find somebody else?
Bob did say that was what he charged. He didn't say the client paid it. ;-)
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I recall when I had my house surveyed some 20 years ago the surveyor charged me £75 an hour! However, he only charged me something like 4 hours for his time - still quite a considerable sum then.
The premise is either charge what you are worth for your time, or what you think the client is willing to pay. Probably the reality lies somewhere between the two due to market forces. Too cheap and they will think not much of you...too dear and they won't come back.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Frankc - Never had many problems with non payment but then I was very very careful accepting clients:-)
You always have the 2 basic models of High volume and low price or Low volume and High price. Payment under the second model tended to be less of a problem.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Many years ago I was talking to a specialist lawyer about how much he was charging for virtually little effort.
He stopped to consider this for a moment & then gave me a response that I sometimes still use to this day:
" You are paying me for what I know......not what I do!"
In my early days as a consultant I was even contacted by one client to complain that I had not charged them enough, & as with Bob, I have never had anybody quibble at my fees, but I do tailor them depending on who they are & what they want me to do.
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Rank: Super forum user
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As per post #12, I quote this statement to my clients. Or 'what will it cost you, if you don't act on my recommendations?'
I agree that the 'Low work volume, high price' consultancy model is best. Never had a problem with payment.
Too many h&s cowboys working in the 'High work volume, low cost' model of consultancy.
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Rank: Super forum user
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So lets play a little costing game, based on the original posting going rate of 25/hr
Assume the original post is a self emploed consultant working via his own Lrd company, I estimate charing £25/hr would work out something like ...
Hrs per yr = 1880hrs (47 weeks @ 40hrs week - assume you want a holiday?)
Most consutants won't get paid for every possible hour, so assume payment for 75% of the hours = 1410hrs/yr
1410 x 25 = £35250 turnover
HMRC will want about 25% of that (personal tax and Corporation tax) - £8812 approx
This leaves £26437, then take off your overheads - fuel, insurance, computer supplies etc - say £4000 yr
This leaves you with a salary nett of about £22500 per year.
So h&s consultancy is well paid??
A simplistic calculation.... but really £25/hr!! Is that all h&s is worth to a client?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Good post JJ however H&S is worth to a Client whatever that Client is prepared to pay.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Or to take the other view - what the consultant is prepared to work for .....
I know I couldn't live off that sort of salary
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Rank: Super forum user
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Post #1 might also like to consider - is this a RAMS document on a topic you have done before?
Therefore you already have the knowledge, maybe you can use a previous RAMS to produce the document your client wants. Copy & paste from existing files etc - being realistic - that happens!!
Or is it a totally new RAMS, you will need to set the document up, mabe time to research the topic and read any relevant guidance available from the HSE or other trade body etc. Extract relevant information etc.
All needs factoring into your time required to complete the work for your client.
Going back to the previous calculation - once you take your tax and costs off you are actually working for about £12/hr -which ends up in your bank account.
22500/1880 = £11.97/hr.
I would go and be a postman or bus driver, if that was all I was earning in h&s.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JJ Prendergast wrote:
Most consutants won't get paid for every possible hour, so assume payment for 75% of the hours = 1410hrs/yr
1410 x 25 = £35250 turnover
HMRC will want about 25% of that (personal tax and Corporation tax) - £8812 approx
This leaves £26437, then take off your overheads - fuel, insurance, computer supplies etc - say £4000 yr
This leaves you with a salary nett of about £22500 per year.
So h&s consultancy is well paid??
A simplistic calculation.... but really £25/hr!! Is that all h&s is worth to a client?
My accountant takes the overheads off my turnover first and then tells me the figure i have to pay HMRC by working out a percentage of what is left.
Be a postman or a bus conductor, JJ but you'd be overpaid around £11.97 per hour if you became an accountant, imo. ;-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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If you are not a high income earner you can do your own accounting, it is easy. If you don't have the time get the missus to do it and pay her, she probably gets most of your money anyway ;-)
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Rank: Super forum user
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frankc
It was a simplistic calculation, I did state that. The point was to illustrate that charging £25/hr leads to a pretty poor salary, if you are a self employed consultant.
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Rank: Super forum user
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JJ I understand completely your point about a living income. However the basic point from any client perspective is "If I am paying peanuts then I am paying for a monkey to cover my back". Decent clients are looking to get good sound advice to manage their business better. This "cost means good" idea lies at the back of why directors listen more to expensive consultants who may be no better than in house staff.
But to get to be a best consultant you need to offer more than just straight forward legal advice or basic documentation. You need an added value that puts you above the high volume businesses operating at minimum cost levels. Personally I think it a bad idea to get into writing any form of Risk Control statements without significant input from employees.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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JJ Prendergast wrote:frankc
It was a simplistic calculation, I did state that. The point was to illustrate that charging £25/hr leads to a pretty poor salary, if you are a self employed consultant.
I know, JJ. That's why i quoted your previous simplistic calculation of £11.97 and added a wink.
And it was free.
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Rank: Super forum user
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boblewis wrote:JJ I understand completely your point about a living income. However the basic point from any client perspective is "If I am paying peanuts then I am paying for a monkey to cover my back". Decent clients are looking to get good sound advice to manage their business better. This "cost means good" idea lies at the back of why directors listen more to expensive consultants who may be no better than in house staff.
But to get to be a best consultant you need to offer more than just straight forward legal advice or basic documentation. You need an added value that puts you above the high volume businesses operating at minimum cost levels. Personally I think it a bad idea to get into writing any form of Risk Control statements without significant input from employees.
Bob
IIRC the requirement for "consultants" to merely "assist" or act as "specialists" when doing RAMS for clients is written into HSE guidance/requirements somewhere.
How can a company "own" its RAMS if they are done by an outside "company", the "user" HAS to be involved to make them work.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Paul
I agree with the HSE view totally BUT I also know that many contractors follow this path of an external consultant in order simply to satisfy some client or tick a box. Fine until it goes wrong. But consultants are chasing work and simply hope that they are not left holding the baby. They serve nobody any good and depress the market. I am confident their PI insurers would not want such a situation.
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Rank: Super forum user
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bob,
Is this why my clients baulk at being asked to take part in the assessments, rather than it just be handed to them on a plate? ;)
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