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mssy  
#1 Posted : 29 May 2014 20:14:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

A care home is prosecuted by the London Fire Brigade There are 17 vulnerable residents, so it's not going to be a huge building, but a total of 3 escape routes (two from upper floors) were found blocked during building works, and I mean blocked (look at the photo on the first link below). These breaches of the FSO were entirely controllable OK they they get a large fine, but it does beg the question; what does a business have to do nowadays before someone in authority serves a prison sentence? Lets hope the HSE are going to prosecute too as there must surely be a CDM breach as well? Photo and local newspaper report here http://www.croydonadvert...153639-detail/story.html Another photo: http://www.croydonadvert...153639/6156806-large.jpg LFB press release here http://www.london-fire.g...slapped.asp#.U4eEGy8mxMM
walker  
#2 Posted : 30 May 2014 07:52:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

There must be similar competing organisations making an effort (and spending otherwise potential profits) to do the job properly. They must be thinking I might as well cut corners, risk peoples lives and bank all that extra money because there is no real deterrent. Clearly it no longer pays to obey the law.
Steve e ashton  
#3 Posted : 30 May 2014 09:12:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

From the reports I make it four exits unusable? The news paper photo may be 'stock' since it doesn't appear to match the descriptions of any of the blocked escape routes... A £70k fine is fairly substantial - it doesn't seem that long ago that anything over ten grand was noteworthy. Care homes generally are reportedly (?!?) operating at very low profit margins, and even at 10% margin, a loss of £70k would require revenue of £700k to compensate. I make that an average of £41k per resident place... which would be the best part of a years costs... The business is likely to go under... The owner/ directors will resurface running a similarly dodgy and deficient enterprise somewhere else... So whilst I may not always advocate jail time - I would be very much in favour of banning directors / owners - and naming /shaming publicly.
A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 30 May 2014 09:58:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Although prison option exists for many such offences, it is blunt tool. Furthermore it costs the tax payer money (£5000 per day) to keep someone inside. I think that more could be done as Steve suggested in naming and shaming employers and in banning directors.
RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 30 May 2014 11:16:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

It's a very good question and I wish I had an equally good answer. Of course, if there had been a fire and residents killed as a result there may well have been a prosecution with a custodial sentence. The problems with paltry penalties is that compliance with the law is hardly a deterrent. The same principle applies for health and safety offences, the fines are generally paltry and individuals are rarely held to account for their failings. The largest fine ever in the UK was £15 million against Transco utility provider for the death of a family of four following a gas explosion. In contrast fines for financial irregularities are often many times this amount and indeed can be as much as hundreds of millions.
walker  
#6 Posted : 30 May 2014 11:25:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Ray, I agree. I've also noticed the Environmental agency don't see to have a problem making penalies fit the crimes.
walker  
#7 Posted : 30 May 2014 11:26:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Penalties ! Edit function please!
A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 30 May 2014 12:22:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Fines are going up. In recent cases the courts are now more or less sticking to the guidance that if a person is killed as result of a H&S breach the standard fine should be at least £100 000. Not so long ago( less than 10 years) a local council employee was killed at work , the council pleaded guilty but the magistrates felt that fine that they could impose was not high enough and the case was referred tot the Crown Court for sentencing. The judge imposed a paltry £20 000, the same as the magistrate could impose; it was almost as if he felt that a H&S case was beneath him and the court. That said these sums are tiny compared to the penalties imposes in financial irregularity cases. Note that these are administrative fines without the involvement of the courts. In effect what happens is that the regulator meets up with the company in trouble and they say “We know you have been naughty but to prove this in court would cost us millions (taking into account the armies of lawyers you would deploy) so we will agree to an administrative penalty instead.”
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