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ehsa  
#1 Posted : 29 May 2014 11:13:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ehsa

Hi all,

I would like some clarification on the issue of accident/incident investigations, how would I go about deciding on the level of knowledge/training required for investigating different types of accidents/incidents for internal company purposes and so that these investigations could if required be used in court.

If someone could identify some training course to meet this need it would be useful aswell.

Thanks and best regards
Granlund40055  
#2 Posted : 29 May 2014 12:24:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Granlund40055

The HSE produced a workbook "Investigating accidents and incidents" see http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsg245.pdf.
Page 13 covers "the decision to investigate" and gives guidance on who should be involved.

Whether an investigation report could be used in court depends on the quality of the evidence collected at the time. In any case the court (or the legal eagles) would expect the original witnesses to give their evidence and be cross examined.

A comprehensive investigation report identifies the root cause(s) and hopefully prevents a repeat. It also helps the insurers decide whether to defend a claim in court or just to open their cheque book.
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 29 May 2014 15:29:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

There are really two questions here. First, the level of knowledge required for investigations will depend on the severity or potential severity of the incident. Most organisations operate a three tier process ie immediate/minor investigation; local/major investigation; and formal investigation. Obviously for the immediate/minor investigation only a basic knowledge of investigation is needed. Sometimes an immediate investigation is reviewed to determine whether a more detailed investigation is required.

Investigations rarely end up in a criminal court but could be used to defend a civil claim. The extent of the investigator's knowledge/experience for an investigation will depend on the severity and possibly other esoteric factors.

IOSH do an excellent 4 day training course, however this is aimed at the higher level for experienced h&s practitioners. Internal training could be provided for the basic level required for immediate/minor investigations.
chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 29 May 2014 17:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Be cautious when it comes to investigating incidents that have resulted in damage to health, particularly where chemicals are concerned. This is one aspect of 'accident' investigation where specialised knowledge is needed. It is all too easy to come up with an incorrect answer. I have had several situations where the conclusion of the investigation by the employer's health and safety advisor was that the skin disease was occupational (even with a confirmatory diagnosis from the dermatologist). When investigated again (as part of the disease management strategy) it became apparent that the true cause was actually non-occupational.
Chris
imwaldra  
#5 Posted : 30 May 2014 10:24:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
imwaldra

As well as the HSE guide, which is pretty basic, there's an IOSH Guide 'Learning the Lessons' targeted at the more serious incidents. You can download it from the Books & Resources tab above.
SDJ  
#6 Posted : 30 May 2014 15:18:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDJ

Hi,

IOSH no longer offer the 4 day professional development course - they do not offer any professional development courses. However, if you are interested I can send you contact details of the company that used to provide such training.
Waz  
#7 Posted : 04 June 2014 08:54:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

Having quickly read some of the responses, one of them identified the potential severity of the incident, which would determine the level of knowledge of investigation team.

Whilst the HSE produce some documents on this topic, a good knowledge of conducting investigations would be of use. Questioning, time mapping, the use of critical and contributing factors (Human/Workplace) is a process required to be considered, there are some courses such as TapRoot, Tripod Beta (Energy Institute) which detail these and offer methodologies on how these can be identified (factors).
El Tel  
#8 Posted : 04 June 2014 15:22:58(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
El Tel

Please remember as well that as far as I am aware, the results of any accident investigation are fully disclosable in court, unless your solicitor has specifically requested you carry one out when it then becomes privilege (unless anyone knows any different?)
Farrall900153  
#9 Posted : 04 June 2014 16:25:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Farrall900153

El Tel wrote:
Please remember as well that as far as I am aware, the results of any accident investigation are fully disclosable in court, unless your solicitor has specifically requested you carry one out when it then becomes privilege (unless anyone knows any different?)


Yes, El Tel is right.

The HSE/LA inspector has the right to see internal reports by virtue of s20 HSW74 and these could then become evidential.

Legal professional (litigation) privilege can be invoked, but the report has to be:

- confidential
- prepared solely, or mainly, to assist the company defend itself against litigation which is reasonably in prospect (be that civil or criminal).

In effect (and I'm not a lawyer, I hasten to add) if the investigation report was commissioned to identify the root cause of the accident then it probably won't qualify for litigation privilege.
chalkleyrg  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2014 16:51:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
chalkleyrg

Folks,

The following course at HSL is an absolute gem and well worth the money:

http://www.hsl.gov.uk/he...incident-investigations-

I'd recommend it for all accident investigators who work in all but the simplest environments.

RGC
matelot1965  
#11 Posted : 07 June 2014 16:24:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Why do you have to do a course to investigate accidents ?. Trade union safety reps as one of their functions have the right to examine the cause of accidents. The SRSC regs do not mention anything about having to undertake a course before you can examine the cause of accidents. Although i appreciate it is probably best practice to undertake a course to give you some underpinning knowledge. I believe that experience within the workplace should give you the tools to be able to investigate an accident.
Farrall900153  
#12 Posted : 09 June 2014 10:13:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Farrall900153

Matelot:
You're quite right that there's no formal requirement to do an accident investigation course, and workplace experience is extremely valuable, but there's more to accident investigation than just that - especially if the accident is likely to lead to court proceedings.

First, the HSE investigation model is based on the assumption that accidents are normally caused by management failures - so an HSE investigator is trained to look at whether there's sufficient evidence of management failure to justify charges.

Second, if the HSE allege a breach of s(2) or s(3) HSW74 then it shall be for the employer to prove that he's innocent, i.e. he had done all so far as reasonably practicable to avoid the accident (as laid down in s(40) HSW74). It won't be sufficient just to challenge the HSE evidence - the employer will need to put his own defence case together.

Third, to put together an acceptable case (bearing in mind that an English criminal trial is adversarial) you need to understand topics such as (and given in no particular order of importance):
- how to interview witnesses
- how to take statements
- how to collect and preserve evidence
- how to maintain the "chain of evidence"
- theories of accident causation
- etc ...

To put the above comments into context the Lead Accident Investigator Certificate course from the Institute of Industrial Accident Investigators (which I hold as a Member) involves an on-line Foundation Unit and then a further 3 days of classroom training followed by a stringent written exam.

The syllabus doesn't include health & safety management systems because the focus is on investigation techniques.
matelot1965  
#13 Posted : 09 June 2014 16:59:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
matelot1965

Farrall900153 wrote:
Matelot:
You're quite right that there's no formal requirement to do an accident investigation course, and workplace experience is extremely valuable, but there's more to accident investigation than just that - especially if the accident is likely to lead to court proceedings.

First, the HSE investigation model is based on the assumption that accidents are normally caused by management failures - so an HSE investigator is trained to look at whether there's sufficient evidence of management failure to justify charges.

Second, if the HSE allege a breach of s(2) or s(3) HSW74 then it shall be for the employer to prove that he's innocent, i.e. he had done all so far as reasonably practicable to avoid the accident (as laid down in s(40) HSW74). It won't be sufficient just to challenge the HSE evidence - the employer will need to put his own defence case together.

Third, to put together an acceptable case (bearing in mind that an English criminal trial is adversarial) you need to understand topics such as (and given in no particular order of importance):
- how to interview witnesses
- how to take statements
- how to collect and preserve evidence
- how to maintain the "chain of evidence"
- theories of accident causation
- etc ...

To put the above comments into context the Lead Accident Investigator Certificate course from the Institute of Industrial Accident Investigators (which I hold as a Member) involves an on-line Foundation Unit and then a further 3 days of classroom training followed by a stringent written exam.

The syllabus doesn't include health & safety management systems because the focus is on investigation techniques.


Hi Farrell,

Very many thanks for your excellent reply. I must bow to your superior knowledge and I do not believe that i could argue against it. It most certainly makes sense to undertand the process of accident investigation to make your case credible in a courtroom. Thanks for the insight
Farrall900153  
#14 Posted : 10 June 2014 10:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Farrall900153

Hi Matelot,
Many thanks for your comment which is appreciated - although I have to say it's not so much a case of "superior" knowledge but more a case of just having a specialist interest in the subject of accident investigation :0)

It also helps that in a previous existence I worked as a specialist investigator both with HM Customs & Excise (drug smuggling; international fraud; counterfeit goods) and the then No7 Regional Crime Squad (money laundering; proceeds of crime recovery). So I've acted as prosecutor, seen trials in action, and have an insight into how the investigator's mind works.

I can't decide if I'm a poacher turned gamekeeper or the other way round! :0)
Waz  
#15 Posted : 12 June 2014 07:45:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

Farrall900153 identifies some exceptional points, the key to the depth of the investigation depends on the potential or actual severity of the incident. The more detailed requirement the higher the severity (actual or otherwise).
SDJ  
#16 Posted : 12 June 2014 15:34:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SDJ

Hi,

I attended this accident investigation & evidence gathering course (which used to be part of the IOSH CPD offering but is no longer) and found it to be excellent. Take a look at their website:

http://www.kinaston.com/index2.html
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