Rank: Forum user 
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Hello all, simple question, I hope.
We are going to sample some transformer oil, so the contractor has provided an MSDS for the oil. The only problem is that it's dated 2010, which is a little old for me. So a quick search later and I have a newer version (now SDS). Only, the oil that's in there is old, very old so which one do I use?
Is the SDS too new, therefore un-usable?
This is a general question, I more or less have my mind made up. I'd just like to generate some opinion on the topic.
Mick
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mick
You need the MSDS that goes with the oil. If the oil is very old, could even the 2010 version be too recent?
LB
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Mick,
The oil is used/old and you are sampling it, so I would assume that you are doing that to check if it has degraded. In that case it will potentially not be the same as the virgin oil to which the data sheet refers. But if you are sampling it then I would further assume that you are set up to handle such oil and so why do you need a data sheet?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with RedKen entirely. The MSDS is not that important. What you need to do is to produce a COSHH risk assessment for sampling this particular oil, as it is in the transformer taking into account any degradation that might have happened since it was set up.
That is what you need to find out, and even an up-to-date SDS won’t tell that.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks all,
As it turns out the transformers are over 30yrs old so no way of getting any info on the oil. The transformers have been removed from service (disconnected and awaiting removal from site).
redken, you are correct. It's actually a specialist contractor that's coming to sample the oil. They will then remove the units and dispose correctly. So, I don't need to facilitate the oil here, just approval of the process they're planning to use.
Mick
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Rank: Super forum user
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Most of the teams doing this appear to be reasonably conscientious.... A couple of queries - what is the 'sampling' intended to achieve? The owner 'should' be able to tell you whether the transformer is PCB - free... This would be the big unknown if opening an old transformer for the first time in a long time and (in theory) the owner should have done it some time ago... If this is what the sampling is intended to determine then your contractors will need to be particularly on the ball in respect of possible spillage prevention and control / clean up contingency resource. - and you will need to brace yourself for some breathtakingly high disposal / replacement costs if you intend to bring the units back into service....
But if you're simply hoping to sample to determine the dielectric quality of the oil - if it hasn't been used in years, then its likely the oil will have high moisture content - in which case, probably cheaper to get rid and refill... But your post suggests remove and dispose of the units so this probably isn't the case here (assuming you are not reselling to a third party)..
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Rank: Super forum user
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Why are you looking at the oil and the comments about old SDS's etc. are very true so take note of them?
It sounds like the oil may be one of the very hazardous PCB oils that were used in transformers that whilst they were very very very good at cooling and other wise doing their job they were also very very very hazardous to human health and the environment (I worked with lots of such oils in the power generation industry).
My advice is that you sample it as if it is a hazardous substance via a lab and nobody should touch the oil or the materials/kit used to sample/remove the oil with their skin and if it is what I think it is it will cost you a lot to get rid of it. The sampling kit should quarantined until U know the results
NB: Some of the oil I looked at was more than 30 years old at the time but still in perfect condition so we continued to use it
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Rank: Super forum user
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It is best if you have BOTH, i.e. MSDS for the oil when it was filled and also the most recent version of the SDS after confirming that the specification/formulation of the transformer oil is the same. The classification for substances occasionally changes, and this can have an impact on the overall classification of the formulated oil. However, as you have stated, getting the original one is not practicable.
I presume that you want re-assurance that the procedure followed by the specialist contractor is adequate in context of COSHH & waste disposal?
For COSHH, the likely exposure route will be via skin/inhalation & whether the control measures are adequate.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/msa19.htm#a8
For waste disposal, if you know already its formulation, then the Technical Guidance-WM2: Hazardous waste-- Interpretation of the definition and classification of hazardous waste (3rd Edition 2013) has the waste codes for waste- insulating and heat transmission oils and then the actual 6 digit codes :-
https://www.gov.uk/gover.../300062/LIT_5426_WM2.pdf
13 03 -Waste insulating and heat transmission oils
13 03 01*-insulating or heat transmission oils containing PCBs [Note A]-MH
13 03 06*-mineral-based chlorinated insulating and heat transmission oils other than those mentioned in 13 03 01-AH
13 03 07*-mineral-based non-chlorinated insulating and heat transmission oils-AH
13 03 08*-synthetic insulating and heat transmission oils-AH
13 03 09*-readily biodegradable insulating and heat transmission oils-AH
13 03 10*-other insulating and heat transmission oils-AH
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Rank: Super forum user
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As the vapour pressures of PCBs are low (as indicated by boiling points typically >300º), I would be more concerned about skin contact than inhalation. Assuming, of course, that the oil in question is a PCB, which is likely given its age.
LB
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Rank: Forum user
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status update:
The (M)SDS is useless as it postdates the oil by a long way. I have turned up the results of previous samplings and the PCB levels are low enough to not be considered as a factor here.
Thanks for the above and feel free to comment further
Mick
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