We have recently placed defibrillators at all of our sites and have trained all of our First Aiders to use them. Whilst our policy so far has been to restrict use of the machines to trained first aiders only, we are considering whether to allow use by untrained persons if no first aiders are immediately available. Whilst we would expect that the number of first aiders trained to use them should mean that the use by untrained persons would be very unlikely, we nevertheless have to consider it. Your thoughts and comments would be welcomed. Thank you. Mike

I am with Nici.

The Resuscitation Council position is in this paper. https://www.resus.org.uk/pages/AEDsecst.htm Basically, time is critical, and it is better that an untrained person has a go if there is no first aider immediately available.

If the defibrillator delivers a shock, then a shock was necessary. I have read that, without the shock, the casualty will certainly die. I would rate the risk of burns as a minor irritation in comparison!

hitting the heart 'reset' button....when no bystander CPR is being given you have around 6 mins to carry this out and have a 60% chance of ROSC or restarting it...it then drops 10% for every minute after that... Just because under PUWER you need to train staff doesn't mean you should restrict lifesaving equipment at work...there are simple rules but it talks you through that..!!

I have just been reading this post and a thought occurred to me about cutting off an underwire bra. How many males untrained or trained in the use of AEDs would be willing to cut off a bra for fear of being accused of inappropriate action. Especially if a shock is not required after fitting the AED to the casualty. I know from my time as a Red Cross first aider that some females are uncomfortable being treated by a male if they have to remove clothing. Mike

I would love to see evidence supporting the above, it's vital that we remove any barriers with regards 'staying alive' and to eliminate barriers to save a life must be welcomed David

Thomas26098, ROI evidence, Previously out of hospital cardiac arrest had 1% survival rate. With the widespread introduction of Dfib and training this has risen to 5%. Based on 5000 cardiac arrests per annum- source: Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council (PHECC) Mike52, A person who is unconscious is unable to give consent and likewise they are unable to object to treatment so therefore this should not be a barrier to providing treatment. It is up to the first aider or responder to take charge of an emergency situation and interference from bystander's is commonplace but must be dealt with by the responder. They are the trained person. If the requirement of using the AED is to remove a bra with a metal underwire then this is what is needed. By the time the AED arrives the chest should be bare as this is a basic requirement of providing chest compressions. Kevin

It really is quite simple....if you have a Defib on site it should be for the use of all...and you may wish to consider offering that up as a PAD (Public Access Defib) especially if you are in a remote/difficult access area..