Rank: New forum user
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We have had a report of a back injury at one of our workplaces. The IP had stood up from a chair at a desk they had been sat at and felt a twinge in their back. The IP finished work and went to an NHS walk in centre and was told they have sciatica and has signed themselves off for 7 days.
The IP was using a shared desk to access some e-learning and DSE is not part of their daily role.
Is this a workplace injury or a medical issue?
We have a difference of opinion in our office and would welcome some more input.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi - if there was nothing wrong with the set-up of the DSE and there were no defects to the equipment / working environment that could have contributed to the injury then I would not personally report it.
I am sure there will be differing opinions as is usually the case for what could be a RIDDOR related topic.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry to do this to a newbie but this sort of question comes up quite often. Is the question: 1) Is this RIDDOR reportable? Answer probably not as it is not connected with or arising from work. 2) Is the question should this be recorded and investigated? Yes, maybe to ensure that it is not RIDDOR reportable and to see if there are lessons to be learned. But any investigation need not be too onerous. 3) Is recording an incident any sort if admission of liability? Certainly not.
That’s my tuppence worth.
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Rank: New forum user
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A Kurdziel wrote:Sorry to do this to a newbie but this sort of question comes up quite often. Is the question: 1) Is this RIDDOR reportable? Answer probably not as it is not connected with or arising from work. 2) Is the question should this be recorded and investigated? Yes, maybe to ensure that it is not RIDDOR reportable and to see if there are lessons to be learned. But any investigation need not be too onerous. 3) Is recording an incident any sort if admission of liability? Certainly not.
That’s my tuppence worth.
Many thanks for taking the time to reply. To clarify I am asking is this a workplace injury and should be recorded as such or a medical issue that needs recording as sick leave. When discussing in the office I likened it to walking down a corridor and tweaking a leg muscle, my colleague however feels that as the chair is classed as workplace equipment and the IP was in the act of standing up from it, we should record it as a workplace injury. Although a newbie forum wise we are both CMIOSH, but have a difference of opinion on this matter. We are interested what other members take on this is?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Tim, then you have come to the right place to expand on that difference of opinion.
SW's response in line with my opinion.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I know the question wasn't about RIDDOR per se but (if it had been) it's quite clear:
From HSE website:
In relation to RIDDOR, an accident is a separate, identifiable, unintended incident, which causes physical injury. This specifically includes acts of non-consensual violence to people at work.
Injuries themselves, eg ‘feeling a sharp twinge’, are not accidents. There must be an identifiable external event that causes the injury, eg a falling object striking someone. Cumulative exposures to hazards, which eventually cause injury (eg repetitive lifting), are not classed as ‘accidents’ under RIDDOR.
Thus there has not been an accident and therefore not reportable.
However... Is this a workplace injury? That's ultimately up to yourself as to whether you wish to record it in that fashion. It feels like a decision you'd make after investigation into any underlying issues. The fact that it happened AT work could simply be co-incidental as you and your colleague have clearly already discussed.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Tim,
I'm sure that this is an ongoing issue in many work places, we had to send a member of staff home today. He came in saying his back was hurting and that he only wanted light duties. I stressed that they hadn't injured it in the work place and that they needed a Dr's note, and for their own benefit as much as anybody else, some physio etc. I know the lad and I know he hurt himself playing football at the weekend, so its a little easier for me to make that judgement. That being said, as long as the DSE is appropriate, your manual handling and lifting aids are all in place (where required), I would argue that its non reportable.
Good luck.
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Rank: Super forum user
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IMHO I think the question is:- would this person have suffered the same pain & resultant time off work anyway regardless of using the DSE equipment (sitting in the canteen or at home). It sounds as if it is an underlying medical condition, therefore they are on the sick from the medical condition not a workplace activity.
You could do worse than actually ask the employee what they think or at least say you intend to record their absence as a medical issue due to the doctors diagnosis and see if they agree (or come out with more information it was work related).
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Tim, Firstly, welcome to the forum. It's unlikely to be reportable as sitting at a workstation is unlikely to create a sitiuation that would lead to the mechaical risk of sciatica. That said, there are other factors which could promote it.
If you could possibly answer the following questions we might be able to aleviate some of the further discomfort; Age? (I'm guessing middle aged) Gender? (I'm guessing male) Normal daily tasks? (i'm guessing they're driving) What side of the body they are experiencing sciatica on? (I'm guessing the left)
I would also urge caution as sciatic pain doesn't normally register in the back.
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Rank: Super forum user
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A walk in centre could not / would not diagnose a pain as sciatica.
They might have suggested it as a probability.
Get you OH people involved otherwise you will be getting a plague of similar events.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Safety Smurf wrote:
I would also urge caution as sciatic pain doesn't normally register in the back.
Quite!
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Rank: Super forum user
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as has been pointed out sciatica is not a disease it's a set of pain related symptoms. The doctor asks you were it hurts and then say: 'Ooh you got sciatica'. it doesn't indicate the cause or anything like that
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Rank: Forum user
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Similar incident here, a lady of slight build and quite active stood up from her desk, heard a crack from her ankle, which was later diagnosed as being broken.
Did not report as RIDDOR but was noted on record as an injury sustained at work with no aparent cause .
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Rank: New forum user
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Thanks to those who have taken the time to reply, it has been interesting to read your views and has also led to me reading up on sciatica. As the IP only gave a self cert 7 day sick note we have decided to wait to see if anything else is raised during the return to work interview before making a decision, if nothing is added we will record this as sick leave not a workplace injury.
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