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decimomal  
#1 Posted : 30 July 2014 14:47:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

The RRO states that there should be " a suitable system of maintenance" for alarm systems but I can't see any reference to who should actually carry out the maintenance. I assume this will be covered by BS5839 (to which I do not have access). The scenario is a client (hotelier) who has had their alarm system looked at by what appears to be a general electrician (Refrigeration specialist) who has recommended they replace it as the detectors are out of well out of their working age and are obsolete. Does BS5839 provide details of who would be deemed 'competent' to carry out inspection and maintenance of fire detection?
Anderson8  
#2 Posted : 30 July 2014 15:33:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8

Hi, The only reference I can find systems are installed and maintained by a competent fire alarm engineer, I don't have the full BS 5839, but key extracts from it. Also the guides produced to support the RRO recommend the same, "a competent person with specialist knowledge of the system", these are produced to help compliance with the RRO and various standards. Given this sounds like a hotel from the description, with sleeping occupants (high risk when risk profiled) I'd want to satisfy myself the contractor is competent, not sure a refrigeration contractor gives me that confidence, sure you'll agree. See the link below to the guidance doc. https://www.gov.uk/gover...eeping-accommodation.pdf
decimomal  
#3 Posted : 30 July 2014 15:45:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
decimomal

Thanks Anderson8; just as I thought, but always good to have a second opinion.
mssy  
#4 Posted : 30 July 2014 17:06:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy

Generally speaking, the FSO defines 'competent' as having "sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities" I would question whether the electrician is competent, as fire alarms are a specialism. Any such engineer can be treated as the 'responsible person' by the courts (Article 5(3) and as such, be prosecuted if it all goes pear-shaped. Have a look below at what can when employing less than competent persons re maintenance of fire alarms: http://www.firesafetylaw...arm-engineer-prosecuted/ http://networkwithbifm.o...a-successfully-prosecute However, this does not let the Resp Person off the hook as it's their duty to ensure competent persons are employed/appointed
DP  
#5 Posted : 30 July 2014 17:32:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
DP

As ever good fire safety advice from mssy regarding competencies. it would appear that he's competent enough to identify the heads maybe older than 10 years and will need replacing for sleeping accommodation. Don't underestimate the competencies of a refrigeration engineer, in my experience they are far more than a general electrician - they are highly skilled and difficult to find. An extremely well known freezer food company you all probably shop in had to buy out many refrigeration company's because they could not simply find them. These guys install 'life' and 'property' systems in large freezer Distribution Centres.
Psycho  
#6 Posted : 31 July 2014 16:48:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Psycho

Decimomal wrote:
The scenario is a client (hotelier) who has had their alarm system looked at by what appears to be a general electrician (Refrigeration specialist) who has recommended they replace it as the detectors are out of well out of their working age and are obsolete.
This is what happens to incompetant fire alarm engineers Fire system contractor has been convicted under the RRO Maintenance engineer Christopher Morris ordered to pay a fine of £5,000 and court costs of £6,000. Enforcement officers examined a fire alarm panel after a fire at the care home Among the deficiencies found were: •A blown fuse overridden with a piece of wire •An electronic component suspended between two terminal bocks instead of being attached to the circuit board •An alarm silence/fault warning buzzer missing from the circuit board •The fault warning light on the front face of the panel had been covered with paint A Spokesman for the Fire Brigade said "Whilst many owners have been prosecuted under the Fire Safety Order, this may be the first time a fire and rescue authority has prosecuted someone contracted by the owner of a property to maintain a fire alarm," he said. "Taking on such a contract extends the requirements of the [fire safety order] to persons who carry out maintenance for the responsible persons."
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