Would one of you fire risk assessors be willing to help with regard information on fire resisting walls. I have been reading through the HM Governments document of Fire safety risk assessment for factories and warehouses, but it has left me with a question.

How do you know if it should be a fire resisting wall ( with appropriate doors / voids filled etc) for compartmentalisation. Once you have established it is to be a fire resisting wall it seems relatively straight forward with regard doors etc, but how do you decide in the first place it should be. I guess modern buildings it will be listed in the plans, but what about older ones.

For instance where I work we have a number of building which are say 2/3 workshop and 1/3 offices, with a concrete block wall between them. Should all workshop type areas definitely have a fire resisting wall between it and offices. Will it depend solely on what the workshop does ie woodworking or garage or food preparation etc etc. Alternatively is it a case if you have machinery etc in the workroom, then there must be a fire resisting wall between it and any offices ?

I was at my local tyre fitters / garage the other day and noticed they didn't have a fire resisting wall or fire doors between the workshop area and the office / customer reception areas.

Is this a case of just risk assessing, ie it only has to be fire resisting if it is needed to allow for evacuation. Therefore the garage didn't need it as they could all be outside in less than a minute from alarm sounding? Is it as simple as that or are there written rules somewhere else ?

Any help will be appreciated as always.

Chris

There are lots of reasons for fire compartments but mainly for protecting escape routes to save life.

You need a proper fire risk assessment to consider travel distances, number of escape routes, number of floors, type/size of premises, occupiers, disability etc. etc. etc.

Jay is right about primarily life saving but there are occasions when fire separation is required due to type of storage/activity i.e. Flammables, explosives etc.

I would suggest your local tyre fitters is a smallish premises with short travel distance to the exits with good visibility so a fire breaking out would be seen early? Apart from small quantities of oils, greases and rubber tyres not much else to burn, however if the tyres do catch fire run as fast and as far as you can away from the premises ha ha.

As previous posters have indicated, many risk assessments look at life safety only, and providing adequate warning can be given and a sufficiently quick escape can be made will conclude that the risk is adequately controlled.

Taking a risk management approach will give some leads as to whether structural fire resistance is needed. Classic examples will be between a production facility and the associated materials storage areas, when fire-separating these from each other is a desirable business goal. Similarly it may be very desirable to keep dangerous materials or processes fire-separated from the remainder of the operations.

Also, a landlord may wish to split his site in to separate fire areas so that one fire will not destroy his entire commercial or industrial estate.

Splitting the fire risk (and consequent financial hit to any business) will also be an attractive feature to the insurers who will be able to make an assessment of their maximum realistic loss exposure and therefore make judgements on both premiums and ability to accept risk themselves.

Well I seem to have drawn a blank with this. I was considering the sites I have a responsibility for, as to whether or not the dividing wall must be fire resistant. I was trying to see if I could get to the same answer as the externally provided fire Risk assessments through my own study and enquiry. Previous Fire risk assessments do not say anything about this, or that some of what used to be fire doors in this wall are not fit for purpose (other than as a general door - ie no intumescent strips or smoke seals). However if the wall does not have to be fire resisting does the doors / internal windows / hatches etc need to be.

From my own review of the Government guidance document (05 FRSD 03338(b) ) and the Building Regulations approved document B, my view is that the separating wall we have should be fire resisting. But current and all previous (that I can find) RA's do not seem to say this. I guess they had had proper fire risk assessment training where I have not, so it is likely to be me that is wrong.

I don't actually feel there is a huge problem ( even if I don't think we meet the guidance) as we evacuate in under one minute from all areas ( most take less than 30 seconds) and we can all be at the assembly point in a bout 1.5 minutes. So it will be smoke if anything that causes the problem.

I wouldn't mind doing a proper course one day ( though the company will not fund, so I will have to save). However do these courses go into this type / level of detail?
For instance - considering the size of the building / compartment ( ie industrial - not sprinklered - grater than 7000 m3 - multi story, but only for a part etc etc).

Or would I still not be able to answer the question, even after training.

Thanks all for your input, there are a number of things you have all pointed out worth further consideration / investigation.

Cheers for taking the time.

Chris